AmSafe news

[Bennett]

Is AmSafe’s representative still monitoring MS? AeroNews reports that AnSafe is developing a “generic” air bag system that can be installed with a 337 form. Is this true? Details? I want them for my J.

 

 

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[donkaye]

Just read the article.  For $2,500 for a 2 seat kit, I'd buy it in an instant.

Generic Aircraft Airbag Restraints Under Development By AmSafe | Aero-News Network.webloc

[aviatoreb]

Fantastic!  I have been wanting amsafe for several years - I will be an early customer if they are conforming for M20K.

[peevee]

54 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Fantastic!  I have been wanting amsafe for several years - I will be an early customer if they are conforming for M20K.

I don't understand the benefit, and we have them.

[aviatoreb]

4 minutes ago, peevee said:

I don't understand the benefit, and we have them.

Doh!

i only put my helmet on during those bike rides right before I crash.  Knock on wood!

[carusoam]

If you have seen the few off runway excursions MS has had...

Encounters with fences at high rates of speeds... trees with a fire off the Airport property... CO in the cabin, sleeping until after touchdown... landing in the front door of a house... all successful in terms of survival... Then there was Patrick, but the other passengers lived...

A few AMU for an airbag is sounding pretty intelligent /wise to me...

It clearly isn't the parachute you pull when you run out of gas at 10k’...  sense my funny form of humor?

It is more of a device you want when you have reached the ground but don't get a full 1000’ to slow down and get stopped...

lets see if we can find our Amsafe contact...

Best regards,

-a-

I sent a request/invite to...  https://www.amsafe.com/airbag-systems/retrofit-aircraft-seatbelt-airbag/

[smccray]

On 1/27/2018 at 7:20 PM, donkaye said:

Just read the article.  For $2,500 for a 2 seat kit, I'd buy it in an instant.

Generic Aircraft Airbag Restraints Under Development By AmSafe | Aero-News Network.webloc

+1  if my memory is correct we were looking at $5k for a mid body STC’d kit. At that price point it didn’t happen, and I have to admit I was a little reluctant. $2500 + install- yes. 

[peevee]

On 1/27/2018 at 7:30 PM, aviatoreb said:

Doh!

i only put my helmet on during those bike rides right before I crash.  Knock on wood!

I already have a 4 point harness and nothing in front of me to hit...

The shoulder belts twist easily, I shudder to think what would happen if the airbag faced the wrong way.

[aviatoreb]

8 hours ago, peevee said:

I already have a 4 point harness and nothing in front of me to hit...

The shoulder belts twist easily, I shudder to think what would happen if the airbag faced the wrong way.

I lack your skepticism - I think air bag seatbelts are generally a good thing.

[DXB]

I couldn't get posted link to work but found this:

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=763c9e77-9ec4-4a2b-bb8f-7e8119ae2082

Not exactly a sexy upgrade, but it might go to the top of my list at $2500.   Supposedly "universally applicable for all non-FAR 23.562 aircraft, to include experimental."  

Sounds great to me, but I think these have to be replaced at a certain interval?  I just put in shoulder harnesses when I bought the plane 3 years ago.  I imagine those get torn out?

[peevee]

15 minutes ago, DXB said:

I couldn't get posted link to work but found this:

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=763c9e77-9ec4-4a2b-bb8f-7e8119ae2082

Not exactly a sexy upgrade, but it might go to the top of my list at $2500.   Supposedly "universally applicable for all non-FAR 23.562 aircraft, to include experimental."  

Sounds great to me, but I think these have to be replaced at a certain interval?  I just put in shoulder harnesses when I bought the plane 3 years ago.  I imagine those get torn out?

the inflators are 10 years or so, IIRC. Recently increased from 7.

[Guest]

While they are a good idea, Am Safe support is lacking.  We are waiting inflators and EMA’s for several Mooney’s.

We buy our EMA’s from Cirrus as they have more stock than Am Safe has.

The most recent SB raises inflator life to 12 years for some part numbers.

In many cases the female buckle requires replacement as well.

Clarence

[Piloto]

Standard seat belts (when worn) has proven to save lives many times. And in those instances were there is fire (likely) AmSafe belts is not going to keep you from burning. The impact kinetic energy on a GA plane crash is 9 times that of a car. And AmSafe does not pay for damage to your plane, limbs and lawsuits but an insurance will do. Avoid the embarrassment, get the piss tube, it will keep you dry after the crash.

José

Edited January 29, 2018 by Piloto

[aviatoreb]

I crashed a car about 14 months ago - first car crash since I was a teen - and by far worse than the little fender bender I had then.

Long story short - on the highway, eventually smacked a jersey barrier - car crunched, seatbelts on and airbags popped - my son and I walked away with only our breath taken away - but I was black and blue across my chest and bruised for weeks from hitting the seatbelt so hard - even with the seatbelt the airbag helped a lot I am sure.  ANyway give me whatever technology is available.  Just in case.  Yes I am sure likewise that in some scenarios the crash can be so severe the airbags are not necessary.  I am sure some they may not be enough or beside the point.  But some scenarios....I'll take em'.  Knock on wood no one here ends up in any of those scenarios...but if they become available, I'm buying.

Edited February 3, 2018 by aviatoreb

[Bennett]

Some years ago I was driving a Mazda Tribute (clone of a Ford Escape), equipped with shoulder belts, and in dash air bags. I was sliding down a mountain road covered in black ice, and I hit a snowplow head on that was also sliding in the opposite direction. The closing speed between the two vehicles was about 60 MPH. The front end of the Tribute simply collapsed (as it was designed to do). The airbags went off for myself and my passenger. To say that we stopped short is no exaggeration. My passenger was wearing a necklace and the light piece of jewelry on the chain caused the chain to break. The snowplow blade was noticeably dented. Neither I, nor my passenger had any injuries beyond light bruising from the shoulder belts. The airbag sulfa smell was overpowering, but three of the four doors still opened. At $2500 for a set of two AmSafe airbags, I’ll be at the front end of the line.

 

 

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[Ron McBride]

I crashed a Jeep Wrangler 3 months ago. I hit 2 Oak trees, badly damaged one. I am estimating that I went from 50 to 0 in about 3 feet.    Had my belts with shoulder harnesses on me, air bag went off.  I am convinced that they saved my life.  Popped the air bag, hit my head on the steering wheel, 5 fractured ribs, fractured nose, cut on the side of my head.  Steering wheel was bent.   But I am still here, I think that these belts would be a good idea also.  

[DanM20C]

The shoulder harness in my Mooney saved my life.  I would have loved to have the  AmSafe's, they probably would have saved me several years of dental work.  Well worth the $2500.  I will be in the front of the line also!

  Cheers,

Dan

[Oldguy]

I am a believer in shoulder harnesses and anything else that will protect me and anyone in the plane. AmSafe bags in the plane? Probably in the future when redoing the interior.

 

[Piloto]

I would rather go for the four point harness. After all this is what the airline and military pilot uses.

The Takata airbag recall was due to the bags exploding causing deaths. And these incidents were at sea level. Now imagine the bags exploding at 20,000ft due to turbulence. The bursting force would be more than twice than at sea level. This would kill the pilot immediately and push the yoke fully forward. Now imagine the airbag bursting on a B747 pilot carrying 500 passengers. Is the risk of having the airbag worth the teeth of the pilot.

José

[jrwilson]

I called Amsafe and for a 231, they estimated $6,300, not including install for pilot and copilot.

[aviatoreb]

26 minutes ago, Piloto said:

I would rather go for the four point harness. After all this is what the airline and military pilot uses.

The Takata airbag recall was due to the bags exploding causing deaths. And these incidents were at sea level. Now imagine the bags exploding at 20,000ft due to turbulence. The bursting force would be more than twice than at sea level. This would kill the pilot immediately and push the yoke fully forward. Now imagine the airbag bursting on a B747 pilot carrying 500 passengers. Is the risk of having the airbag worth the teeth of the pilot.

José

It's not a debate or a choice - we don't get to choose. If we got to choose - then I would choose a 4 point airbag seatbelt.  In order I would choose, 4 point airbag seatbelt, 3 point airbag, 4 point standard, 3 point standard.  We can debate, discuss, or enjoy talking about, how to order that list, but....

But we don't get to choose because of the STC process - we can only purchase what the regulations allow us to purchase and no 4 point solution is available at this time or even in discussion.  I have a 3 point standard and will upgrade to a 3 point airbag if I can, immediately as soon as it is available.  If 4 point airbag, all the better.

[DonMuncy]

Where do/would you locate the rear attachment for a 4 point belt. It should be close to the center of the pilot's back, about shoulder level. Wouldn't that be across the passenger and luggage area.

[DanM20C]

58 minutes ago, Piloto said:

I would rather go for the four point harness. After all this is what the airline and military pilot uses.

The Takata airbag recall was due to the bags exploding causing deaths. And these incidents were at sea level. Now imagine the bags exploding at 20,000ft due to turbulence. The bursting force would be more than twice than at sea level. This would kill the pilot immediately and push the yoke fully forward. Now imagine the airbag bursting on a B747 pilot carrying 500 passengers. Is the risk of having the airbag worth the teeth of the pilot.

José

Proper four point harness would be preferable to the shoulder harness,  But I don't think that is an option in our Mooneys. 

The faulty Takatat airbag system is a real concern.  The problem, as I understand it, is when the propellant aged sometimes it would "explode" (chemical reaction faster than designed) when activated.  That caused bits of metal and plastic to become shrapnel when the airbag deploys.  That is what killed people, not random airbag deployments.  Much will be learned from this and airbags will be even safer.  When an AmSafe deploys the energy is 180 from the traditional car airbag, if anything is ejected from the airbag system it will be moving away from the occupant. Even if the propellant "explodes" it will likely not be fatal.

I can see premature deployment a real concern, especially in aircraft.  Has there been any?  There are a lot of AmSafes flying around in GA for the last decade. 

Cheers,

Dan

[smccray]

1 hour ago, jrwilson said:

I called Amsafe and for a 231, they estimated $6,300, not including install for pilot and copilot.

That doesn't make any sense to me given the news article.  It will take a little time, but hopefully this will become a little more clear.  I really hope the person on the phone wasn't clear about upcoming changes to Amsafe pricing.

[jrwilson]

17 minutes ago, smccray said:

That doesn't make any sense to me given the news article.  It will take a little time, but hopefully this will become a little more clear.  I really hope the person on the phone wasn't clear about upcoming changes to Amsafe pricing.

Well, the news article is about a product in development.  I'm really talking apples and oranges.  The one they have certified and available is 6,000.  Who knows when or if the developmental product will be available and what it will actually cost.  I'm just reporting the price of their current product.  I maybe should have been more clear.