flysamo Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 doing some upgrades on 99 ovation, Hartzell has a prop j3fo7550stp they say is thinner faster prop then the standard ovation prop, how does this compare to factory upgrade ( 310 hp upgrade) believe there # phc-j3yf-1rf/f7693df(b)2 any comments, looking for speed increase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 There are several props from which you could choose. I'm not familiar with the first Hartzell model number you gave...can you double-check it or give a better description? My guess is that you have the McCauley 2-blade "toothpick" prop. Although this is good for speed in cruise, it doesn't help get the aircraft off the runway quickly or help in the climb - especially at higher temperatures and/or altitudes and higher weights. The three props acceptable under the 310HP STC are... * Composite - the most expensive (~$23k), but weighs the least * PHC J3YF 1RF/7693DF-2 - weighs the most (80 pounds) and is the prop used most by Ovation and Eagle owners when converting to 310HP * PHC J3YF 1RF/7498 - a derivative of the F7693, it weighs 7 pounds less, is 2 inches larger in diameter, and yields roughly 5-7 knots faster than the F7693DF-2. Same prop used on Acclaim Type-S conversions, and also approved for use on the Ovation. Cost is the same as the 7693 (~$12.5k). Originally a Bob Minnis design, it gives the best performance from a takeoff, climb, and cruise speed standpoint over the other two What upgrades are you planning? Also would help if you added some detail to your profile...where you're from, pictures, etc. Welcome to the forum. Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Hartzell Choices As Steven outlined... thick thin composite Competing brand... MT. Composite four blade Going faster requires higher FF that comes with running anything over the stock 2500 rpm... no surprise, FF = additional power to go faster... The great advantage of the prop and 310hp upgrade is T/O distance and climb rate... and quarter mile time... Cruising at 2550 is pretty nice... I went with the Bob Minnis recommendation... (thin) Having a phone call with Bob M. Prior to purchase is highly recommended. Steven delivers the details really well, but Bob is the actual technical resource / STC author.... The MT for the Long Body is a four blade prop. Great for speed at higher altitudes thinner air.... more wind resistance down low.... Also contact Hartzell directly... that is also a worthwhile firsthand discussion. Thanks to Steven that has a Great memory for all these details! Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_S Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Just a quick correction to Steve's note about the x7498 model. It is the same initial diameter as the x7693, 76". It is 7.5 lbs less, and interestingly, it allows an extra inch (up to 2") of diameter reduction for tip damage. This is the prop that is used standard on the Acclaim S. It's possible that both Ultras also use this prop...anybody know about this? Attached is the brochure from Hartzell. Catalog-Top-Prop-for-Mooney.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 47 minutes ago, Jeff_S said: Just a quick correction to Steve's note about the x7498 model. It is the same initial diameter as the x7693, 76". It is 7.5 lbs less, and interestingly, it allows an extra inch (up to 2") of diameter reduction for tip damage. This is the prop that is used standard on the Acclaim S. It's possible that both Ultras also use this prop...anybody know about this? Attached is the brochure from Hartzell. Catalog-Top-Prop-for-Mooney.pdf Thanks Jeff for pointing that out. Yes, the current Acclaim and Ultra propellers is the 7498 model, although each option is available from Mooney. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Additionally, Hartzell shared some updated pricing for the 7693 and 7498 prop kits ("kit" = Prop, Spinner, and STC paperwork)... * Without boots - $13,579 * With boots only - $14,837 * With boots and TKS slinger ring kit - $17,739 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, StevenL757 said: Additionally, Hartzell shared some updated pricing for the 7693 and 7498 prop kits ("kit" = Prop, Spinner, and STC paperwork)... * Without boots - $13,579 * With boots only - $14,837 * With boots and TKS slinger ring kit - $17,739 Pricing for ga parts is disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Yeah, it can be. I expressed similar thoughts during my conversation with them today (nicely), and was told that the increase was purely due to materials cost and nothing more, but still, I remember paying 15,700 for my 7498 with TKS kit, so I'd be miffed over a 2.2k increase since mid-2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 I priced a 2 blade Hartzell about 6 months ago- they wanted something in the neighborhood of $12k. It was half the price when it was released 10 years ago- that growth rate is pretty easy to calculate- and I don’t buy that it’s an increase in materials cost. They told me it was a big discount from their list price... like it was supposed to make me feel better. 10% of the value of the plane in the propeller? No wonder GA is shrinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txbyker Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 7693DF-2 still available. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flysamo Posted January 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) reached a decision that my 99 ovation which is a 3 blade hartzel has a 1000 hrs. dosen't leak, 280 hp ,prop set at 2550 for take off , new cylinders installed, adsb in/out and decided that the moritz gauges( which are unrepairable) are to be replacement with jpi 900 engine monitor. instead of buying a new Mooney, decided to upgrade and convert to a 310 hp but not shur which prop would be best suited, want speed improvement since my current prop may need an overhaul in the future and have to decide which way to go. Could use some advise from the brain trust located Camarillo California Edited January 24, 2018 by flysamo add location Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted January 24, 2018 Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 On 1/22/2018 at 3:01 PM, Jeff_S said: Just a quick correction to Steve's note about the x7498 model. It is the same initial diameter as the x7693, 76". It is 7.5 lbs less, and interestingly, it allows an extra inch (up to 2") of diameter reduction for tip damage. This is the prop that is used standard on the Acclaim S. It's possible that both Ultras also use this prop...anybody know about this? Attached is the brochure from Hartzell. Catalog-Top-Prop-for-Mooney.pdf That was the prop on the M20V (005) I flew last month, also with the 310 STC. A couple of months ago I was in an Eagle with the Hartzell composite prop. That was the smoothest Continential 550 Mooney I have been in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Absolutely Mike. If it's balanced correctly, it really is that smooth. My cabin noise was cut down significantly versus the McCauley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 Material cost? No. I think the 15k prop was about 8k when it was released 10 years ago. More likely they need to extra income to offset the three TBM’s they have flying around. I don’t have a problem with an aviation company doing well but don’t play the material cost card. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 Has anyone ever done the prop (O1 here) before doing the engine stc? I may need to replace my prop but am waiting to overhaul / do the stc... will overhaul on condition. Are there any gotchas with this plan? Considering the new Acclaim prop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 1 hour ago, gsengle said: Has anyone ever done the prop (O1 here) before doing the engine stc? I may need to replace my prop but am waiting to overhaul / do the stc... will overhaul on condition. Are there any gotchas with this plan? Considering the new Acclaim prop... The Acclaim prop will make a new plane out of the ol O1. Expect about 8 kts gain in cruise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 GS, Any interest in an original O1 hub and a single blade? I might know of one. Sitting in the back of a hangar for years... it may have moved on by now... It is in unknown condition as it sits. It had 1600 or so hours total on it... born in ‘94... Let me know if interested, I can look to see who the owner is if it is still there. Best rgeards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted April 23, 2018 Report Share Posted April 23, 2018 On 4/22/2018 at 9:51 AM, gsengle said: Has anyone ever done the prop (O1 here) before doing the engine stc? I may need to replace my prop but am waiting to overhaul / do the stc... will overhaul on condition. Are there any gotchas with this plan? Considering the new Acclaim prop... Greg, agree with Mike. Removing your MacCauley for the F7498 will actually add ~4-5 knots right out of the box (given you have TKS) without touching the 310 conversion. Without TKS, it's closer to a 7-8knot gain. I'd stake my last dollar that you'll be more than impressed. There's no sense in spending the same amount for the F7693 DF-2. The performance just isn't there versus the F7498. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert C. Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 Greg, Given that your family is only going to be growing in weight and size, and that you're operating out of a short-ish field you may want to keep looking at the 4-blade MT as well. My understanding is that it'll do even better in the acceleration/climb department. Robert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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