chrixxer Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 I'm pretty sure I know which way I'm going, but a new plane just came to my attention and want to make sure I'm not being an idiot. Trying to decide between two M20Fs, a 1967 and a 1969. Asking price: Both are the same price. Times: Both have the same TTAF. The '67 has 1100+ on its engine, the '69 has 1600+, and 250 since a top end rebuild. The '67 has a prop from 2006 with 500 hours. The '69 has a brand new 20 hour scimitar prop. The '69 has been flying about 65 hours a year for the past several years. The '69 flew 25 hours last year. Exterior: Both have fresh paint in modern schemes (2008 for the '67, 2015 for the '69). The '67 has single piece rear windows, the '69 is original. The '69 has dual LED landing lights and 3-point strobes. The '69 has an HID landing light and everything else is LED. Both have the cowl closure and 201 windshield. Both are 10/10. Both have been hangared. Misc: The '67 has manual landing gear, hydraulic flaps, and the retractable step. The '69 has electric gear / flaps and the thinner fixed step. The '69 has the revised yellow arc speeds. LASAR recently did an extensive annual on the '69; the '67 will go in for an annual at an MSC before I'd buy her. Tanks: The '69 was stripped and resealed (7 year warranty) 2 years ago. The '67 was last done in 2003. Donuts: The '69 gear donuts were installed in 2007, the '67's in 2016. Interior: Both have seats original to the aircraft, both have been recovered ('67 in 2009 with brown; '69 in 2015 (grey). Both have new plastics. The '69 is gorgeous and comfortable. The '67, frankly, I'd want to repce with an interior from a '69 or newer. Is this possible? Both have shoulder harnesses installed. The ones in the '69 are inertial reel. Panel: Both are flyable as-is. The '67 has a nicely updated clean panel, the Vernier throttles (which I prefer), but also the old Klixon switches. The '69 has the "modern" Mooney layout ("climbing" 6-pack) and has been augmented over the years with newer tech in kind of a hodge podge. Still has the original tach, MP/FP, and 201-style strip engine gauges. The '69 has the earlier quadrant controls (with no button for guns). Avionics: '69 Mooney: Original style steam 6-pack with a DG S-Tec 30 AP with altitude hold JPI Fuel Scan 450 totalizer JPI EDM-700 engine monitor GNS430W GPS NAVCOM with GPSS KX-155 with glideslope Dual CDIs (Garmin GI-106 and a King w/ glideslope) PS 8000B audio panel, stereo wired headset jacks GTX327 transponder FreeFlyte 978 ADS-B in/out with WiFi for iPad/ForeFlight Garmin GPS 496 linked to the 430W, with XM Weather and Radio 406 MHz ELT '67 Mooney Modtly original gauges with an NSD 360 HSI (slaved) and backup electric AI S-Tec 55W AP with VS climb/descent and vertical tracking JPI EDM 900 with fuel totalizer (wholesale replacement of legacy engine gauges) Dual GNS430W GPS NAVCOMs (not sure if GPSS, but GPS "coupled") FS210 for iPad integration (GPS, AHRS, and push flight plans from ForeFlight to the 430) Garmin GI-106 CDI PS 8000BT audio panel with Bluetooth and LEMO plugs GTX330ES transponder with ADS-B Out and TIS traffic (don't believe there's any ADS-B weather). Garmin GPS496 linked to the 430W, with XM Weather and Radio 406 MHz ELT I'd put an EDM 900 in the '69 if I got it ($8,000 or less (Oshkosh rebates)), also a FS210 ($2,000), and I'd upgrade the autopilot to a 55X ($9,500ish). At some point I'd also install a clean, organized panel. Either aircraft would get an EFIS at some point, probably an Aspen, maybe the newly STC'd G500. I'd want to redo the interior of the '67, stat (those low-back early seats I find to be not that comfortable, and I don't like the kind of orangey-brown color). The '69 is gorgeous inside and out, except for the kind of haphazard panel. Is it even possible to install newer Mooney seats in a '67? Guesstimate as to cost? I've seen the '69 in person and almost test flew it with a CFI A&P (mixture was set too rich and it died at idle check, and oil pressure was a hair low, so I taxied it back to fly another day; everything was addressed by a mechanic today). The '67 is all the way across the country. So, basically, the '67 has my dream panel (minus the EFIS), but an interior I'd gut, switches that are expensive to replace and probably close to failing, tanks that will probably need expensive attention soon, a prop past calendar TBO, the manual landing gear I love (except for the loss of cabin space), a retractable step I'd rather not maintain (I know it can be rigged to stay up - making ingress difficult for some of my pax - or down, with drag...), and hydraulic flaps I'm a bit leery of. I like the solid rear window in the '67 but my understanding is that that's not a huge deal to install. The '69 has my dream interior and the better paint (the '67 is nice, the '69 is nicer), the old-timey rear window, and a very serviceable panel with some room for immediate improvement but nothing that's a deal breaker. Tanks are freshly sealed and essentially worry-free for at least the next 5 years. Brand new scimitar prop. Maintenance-free step. LED landing lights. Engine has a bit more time on it but recently had a lot of attention and has been on oil analysis since before the cylinders were all replaced (first-run Lycoming). Easy operation electric landing gear with more usable interior space, though the potential for expensive maintenance someday. Don't know much about electric flaps. The '69 is a 1.5 hour flight away in the SR22. The '67 is about 2300nm away (guesstimating $2,000 plus opportunity costs for me to fly out and bring it back). This is a hard one, because both are more or less equally balanced on my SWOT Analysis. Both are private sellers selling their personal planes. Both have full logs etc. I've run both through the Mooney M20F valuation tool and both are priced pretty much right where they should be (maybe a tiny bit high, but within the realm of negotiation)... WWYD, those with more Mooney ownership experience than I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Hmmm . . . . . Choices, choices, choices. Which of your desired improvement programs will cost less? How is your right shoulder doing for manual gear? Mine has problems dating to high school football . . . . The higher V speeds are nice! Especially for instrument approaches. Isn't the 67 a twisted wing? That was a one year experiment that was abandoned, but prevents installing popular mods like wing tips, wing tip lights, etc. It's also a couple of knots slower, I think. I also don't know anything about the hydraulic flaps. Fixed steps are not anything to worry about. Every Mooney built since 1968 or 1969 has one, and the new U and V models have two! It's nice being able to use the space between the seats for storage. I keep sectionals, charts, tablets there, and plates crossways below the console, although I am working to replace them with the tablet I'm writing on now. Lunch and drinks also fit well between the seats, and are easy to reach. Controls are a personal thing. I like the quadrant, some people don't, just like some like electric gear and some don't. Higher seatbacks with headrests are the way to go! Add in to the refurb cost if needed. Be sure to check AD compliance. Is there much of a difference in recurring ADs between these two planes? Happy hunting!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hank said: Hmmm . . . . . Choices, choices, choices. Which of your desired improvement programs will cost less? How is your right shoulder doing for manual gear? Mine has problems dating to high school football . . . . The higher V speeds are nice! Especially for instrument approaches. Isn't the 67 a twisted wing? That was a one year experiment that was abandoned, but prevents installing popular mods like wing tips, wing tip lights, etc. It's also a couple of knots slower, I think. I also don't know anything about the hydraulic flaps. Fixed steps are not anything to worry about. Every Mooney built since 1968 or 1969 has one, and the new U and V models have two! It's nice being able to use the space between the seats for storage. I keep sectionals, charts, tablets there, and plates crossways below the console, although I am working to replace them with the tablet I'm writing on now. Lunch and drinks also fit well between the seats, and are easy to reach. Controls are a personal thing. I like the quadrant, some people don't, just like some like electric gear and some don't. Higher seatbacks with headrests are the way to go! Add in to the refurb cost if needed. Be sure to check AD compliance. Is there much of a difference in recurring ADs between these two planes? Happy hunting!! Back of napkin, both planes will require (sooner then later) the same dollar amount invested, though I'm still not sure if installing the newer seats in the older plane is even possible. The manual gear in my E was a joy to operate. Only the yellow arc moved between the '67 and '69 Fs, Vle and Vge are the same (and, for Vge, annoyingly low). I don't know about the twisted wing, I'll research. The hydraulic flaps are okay but not my first choice (having spent $400 to replace an o-ring that caused them to retract by themselves on short final, and they still weren't quite right ( an extra pump and a half was needed to get them halfway down). i don't worry about the fixed step on the '69, in fact I prefer it to the maintenance-required retractable step and the drag penalty incurred when it's stuck down. ADs are pretty much the same with both (both have props that eliminate the 100 hour AD). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 I thought hydraulic flaps were below my Vfe = 125 mph. I'm sure manual gear is below my Vge = 120 mph. All electric is easy . . . Aren't they? No need to install new seats, just make them taller and add headrests when recovering. Check with your upholstery shop about this. Additional seat repairs may be necessary then, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Buying something across the country adds to the cost. Money and time... Going to see it in person is one flight. Hopefully you like it as much as before you flew out to see it... Bringing it back home can be an epic flight cost... Who is Doing the PPI? When I Bought my O in TX, going to visit with Don M. Was an easy choice... Reputable seller, reputable PPI, reputable TT CFII, Calculatable Ferry costs were close to expected... a few hotel days total.. If it fails the PPI Or has other challenges, that can be a major pain.... I wasn't planning to send anything to a PPI, unless I expected it was going to pass.... 2000 miles is a long way. Good luck with your second Mooney, whichever you go with! Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantosDumont Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Your topic title made me think it should be Between two (F)erns or A Tale of Two F’s. Manual gear always works, but if I could just flip a switch for gear to come up it would be one less process to worry about on take off. Quite frankly the title MSC doesn’t impress me. When I bought 221HP I had it inspected by the Vegas MSC and they failed to detect that the vacuum pump piping was rubbing against the engine manifold and that someone had “repaired” it with aluminum tape. LASAR has a lot better reputation than some random shop that is licensed territory from Mooney. A nice interior makes the plane a lot more modern than it is. Having a problem while flying the plane back is also a risk with a huge opportunity cost. Flying down the Central Valley there are 100 places you could land that would have a decent mechanic and a short ride back home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLRDMD Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 '67 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLRDMD Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 8:34 PM, chrixxer said: I don't know about the twisted wing, I'll research. That didn't affect all of the '67 F models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 39 minutes ago, Hank said: I thought hydraulic flaps were below my Vfe = 125 mph. I'm sure manual gear is below my Vge = 120 mph. All electric is easy . . . Aren't they? No need to install new seats, just make them taller and add headrests when recovering. Check with your upholstery shop about this. Additional seat repairs may be necessary then, too. Yeah, hydraulic flaps, 100mph Vle. But Vge is 120mph on the manual gear. I don't think '67 seats (flat, low back, different recline) can easily be turned from this to that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, KLRDMD said: '67 Why? Dave and Troy would thank you for recommending the '69 (just saying ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 21 minutes ago, SantosDumont said: Your topic title made me think it should be Between two (F)erns or A Tale of Two F’s. Manual gear always works, but if I could just flip a switch for gear to come up it would be one less process to worry about on take off. Quite frankly the title MSC doesn’t impress me. When I bought 221HP I had it inspected by the Vegas MSC and they failed to detect that the vacuum pump piping was rubbing against the engine manifold and that someone had “repaired” it with aluminum tape. LASAR has a lot better reputation than some random shop that is licensed territory from Mooney. A nice interior makes the plane a lot more modern than it is. Having a problem while flying the plane back is also a risk with a huge opportunity cost. Flying down the Central Valley there are 100 places you could land that would have a decent mechanic and a short ride back home. Your manual gear is a beast to get up. Most aren't that bad, and don't need the dip (I'm convinced it's the inner gear doors). My E was no "process," it was as easy to swing the bar as change a control position switch lever, at any speed below 100mph. Two finger job. The potential pitfalls of an X/C flight is a good point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Having seats modded is a possibility... it’s been done around here before. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLRDMD Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, chrixxer said: Why? Dave and Troy would thank you for recommending the '69 (just saying ) Manual gear. Plus HSI, backup electric AI, S-Tec 55W A/P, JPI EDM 900, Dual GNS430W, PS 8000BT, GTX330ES with ADS-B Out. I was sitting in Troy's office when he read your E-Mail to me today 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 If you have found a nice plane close to you, my recommendation is to buy it, before someone else does. I won't feel bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, KLRDMD said: Manual gear. Pus HSI, backup electric AI, S-Tec 55W AP, JPI EDM 900, Dual GNS430W, PS 8000BT, GTX330ES with ADS-B Out. I was sitting in Troy's office when he read your E-Mail to me today HSI: Irrelevant (EFIS). S-Tec can be upgraded to a 55X. EDM 900 can be installed. EDM 700 + FS-450 + factory gauges flyable for now. Not sure I see the advantage of a dual 430 setup, though I'd replace the KX-155 at some point (GNC255 probably), so there's that. 8000B vs BT is kind of a wash (I have an external Bluetooth module). GTX327 with FreeFlyte is equal to GTX330ES (albeit with 1090 capability). Then you've got the earlier interior, the hydraulic flaps ("hang on for a second while I pump up my plane controls..."), those expensive and problematic Klixon switches, and the distance factor and expense, the 15 year old tank sealant, the older prop... Agreed, panel-to-panel the '67 wins hands down. But when you look at the totality of the circumstances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Glenn said: If you have found a nice plane close to you, my recommendation is to buy it, before someone else does. I won't feel bad. Heh. I was trying not to name names or planes... You put me in a quandary. I'd decided to pull the trigger on the '69, but then I saw your panel. Both look like awesome planes and I'm sure I'll be happy with either. It's nice to have two stellar examples to choose between! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Is the other F a long standing member of MS? MS owned planes are better than non-MS owned planes... MS pilots are in the know... Best regards, -a- 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 You should buy the one with the least amount of corrosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, carusoam said: Is the other F a long standing member of MS? MS owned planes are better than non-MS owned planes... MS pilots are in the know... Best regards, -a- Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 It’s not getting any easier... If you buy a plane in NJ... There might be a NJ Mooney fly-in happening. Check the schedule... Transition Training can include a flight up the Hudson River, right Along Manhattan, the World Trade Center, The Empire State Building, and the Statue of Liberty... What does that other state have to offer? -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 32 minutes ago, carusoam said: It’s not getting any easier... If you buy a plane in NJ... There might be a NJ Mooney fly-in happening. Check the schedule... Transition Training can include a flight up the Hudson River, right Along Manhattan, the World Trade Center, The Empire State Building, and the Statue of Liberty... What does that other state have to offer? -a- That's a thought... Is there in fact such a meetup? When? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 I think I've put my finger on the key difference for me.. Glenn's plane is basically my '66 E with bigger tanks, a 10" stretch, a higher gross weight, and a super nice panel. But it's the trailing edge of the 1960s Mooneys, with the old style switches, bullet lights, RAM air and other controls, etc. (And I've flown behind those Bonanza yokes a lot in Proteus Cherokees; not a deal breaker, but I find them really awkward.) Those seats etc were "okay" in a $27K E, but I think I'm looking for more ( without having to work out the particulars with an upholstery shop) in a >$70K F. The '69 is more the leading edge of the 1970s Mooneys. Seats that wouldn't look out of place in a Bravo, and are very comfortable as-is. The panel is more haphazard, but that can be fixed with a freshly fabricated panel with a clean layout. Mooney yokes (the same white ones I loved in my E, but nicely leather wrapped - and not with a generic Velcro'd leather cover). Dual LED landing lights up front. Quadrant throttles I'm not wild about but I'm sure are good enough. I'd kinda prefer manual gear but that's something of an anachronism, and without side pockets that center space really is handy. I think I prefer electric flaps to the hydraulic, unless someone tells me something different. Not gonna lie, though, that EDM900 and STec 55X and FS210 and the second 430W vs a NAVCOM ... are seriously tempting. Argh!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Andy95W said: You should buy the one with the least amount of corrosion. Assume they're both solid, clean planes and that isn't a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 9 hours ago, chrixxer said: I'm pretty sure I know which way I'm going, but a new plane just came to my attention and want to make sure I'm not being an idiot. Trying to decide between two M20Fs, a 1967 and a 1969. Asking price: Both are the same price. Times: Both have the same TTAF. The '67 has 1100+ on its engine, the '69 has 1600+, and 250 since a top end rebuild. The '67 has a prop from 2006 with 500 hours. The '69 has a brand new 20 hour scimitar prop. The '69 has been flying about 65 hours a year for the past several years. The '69 flew 25 hours last year. Exterior: Both have fresh paint in modern schemes (2008 for the '67, 2015 for the '69). The '67 has single piece rear windows, the '69 is original. The '69 has dual LED landing lights and 3-point strobes. The '69 has an HID landing light and everything else is LED. Both have the cowl closure and 201 windshield. Both are 10/10. Both have been hangared. Misc: The '67 has manual landing gear, hydraulic flaps, and the retractable step. The '69 has electric gear / flaps and the thinner fixed step. The '69 has the revised yellow arc speeds. LASAR recently did an extensive annual on the '69; the '67 will go in for an annual at an MSC before I'd buy her. Tanks: The '69 was stripped and resealed (7 year warranty) 2 years ago. The '67 was last done in 2003. Donuts: The '69 gear donuts were installed in 2007, the '67's in 2016. Interior: Both have seats original to the aircraft, both have been recovered ('67 in 2009 with brown; '69 in 2015 (grey). Both have new plastics. The '69 is gorgeous and comfortable. The '67, frankly, I'd want to repce with an interior from a '69 or newer. Is this possible? Both have shoulder harnesses installed. The ones in the '69 are inertial reel. Panel: Both are flyable as-is. The '67 has a nicely updated clean panel, the Vernier throttles (which I prefer), but also the old Klixon switches. The '69 has the "modern" Mooney layout ("climbing" 6-pack) and has been augmented over the years with newer tech in kind of a hodge podge. Still has the original tach, MP/FP, and 201-style strip engine gauges. The '69 has the earlier quadrant controls (with no button for guns). Avionics: '69 Mooney: Original style steam 6-pack with a DG S-Tec 30 AP with altitude hold JPI Fuel Scan 450 totalizer JPI EDM-700 engine monitor GNS430W GPS NAVCOM with GPSS KX-155 with glideslope Dual CDIs (Garmin GI-106 and a King w/ glideslope) PS 8000B audio panel, stereo wired headset jacks GTX327 transponder FreeFlyte 978 ADS-B in/out with WiFi for iPad/ForeFlight Garmin GPS 496 linked to the 430W, with XM Weather and Radio 406 MHz ELT '67 Mooney Modtly original gauges with an NSD 360 HSI (slaved) and backup electric AI S-Tec 55W AP with VS climb/descent and vertical tracking JPI EDM 900 with fuel totalizer (wholesale replacement of legacy engine gauges) Dual GNS430W GPS NAVCOMs (not sure if GPSS, but GPS "coupled") FS210 for iPad integration (GPS, AHRS, and push flight plans from ForeFlight to the 430) Garmin GI-106 CDI PS 8000BT audio panel with Bluetooth and LEMO plugs GTX330ES transponder with ADS-B Out and TIS traffic (don't believe there's any ADS-B weather). Garmin GPS496 linked to the 430W, with XM Weather and Radio 406 MHz ELT I'd put an EDM 900 in the '69 if I got it ($8,000 or less (Oshkosh rebates)), also a FS210 ($2,000), and I'd upgrade the autopilot to a 55X ($9,500ish). At some point I'd also install a clean, organized panel. Either aircraft would get an EFIS at some point, probably an Aspen, maybe the newly STC'd G500. I'd want to redo the interior of the '67, stat (those low-back early seats I find to be not that comfortable, and I don't like the kind of orangey-brown color). The '69 is gorgeous inside and out, except for the kind of haphazard panel. Is it even possible to install newer Mooney seats in a '67? Guesstimate as to cost? I've seen the '69 in person and almost test flew it with a CFI A&P (mixture was set too rich and it died at idle check, and oil pressure was a hair low, so I taxied it back to fly another day; everything was addressed by a mechanic today). The '67 is all the way across the country. So, basically, the '67 has my dream panel (minus the EFIS), but an interior I'd gut, switches that are expensive to replace and probably close to failing, tanks that will probably need expensive attention soon, a prop past calendar TBO, the manual landing gear I love (except for the loss of cabin space), a retractable step I'd rather not maintain (I know it can be rigged to stay up - making ingress difficult for some of my pax - or down, with drag...), and hydraulic flaps I'm a bit leery of. I like the solid rear window in the '67 but my understanding is that that's not a huge deal to install. The '69 has my dream interior and the better paint (the '67 is nice, the '69 is nicer), the old-timey rear window, and a very serviceable panel with some room for immediate improvement but nothing that's a deal breaker. Tanks are freshly sealed and essentially worry-free for at least the next 5 years. Brand new scimitar prop. Maintenance-free step. LED landing lights. Engine has a bit more time on it but recently had a lot of attention and has been on oil analysis since before the cylinders were all replaced (first-run Lycoming). Easy operation electric landing gear with more usable interior space, though the potential for expensive maintenance someday. Don't know much about electric flaps. The '69 is a 1.5 hour flight away in the SR22. The '67 is about 2300nm away (guesstimating $2,000 plus opportunity costs for me to fly out and bring it back). This is a hard one, because both are more or less equally balanced on my SWOT Analysis. Both are private sellers selling their personal planes. Both have full logs etc. I've run both through the Mooney M20F valuation tool and both are priced pretty much right where they should be (maybe a tiny bit high, but within the realm of negotiation)... WWYD, those with more Mooney ownership experience than I? I would highly recommend you prebuy the owner also. DISCLAIMER: I know Glenn Tanner, and you wont find someone who has cared for or loved his F more than Glenn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny moose Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 I have a 67 F with the twisted wing. Not slower then the rest(I have some speed mods) 7K-9K, 152-154 KTAS, 10 GPH, and with my steam gauges and old GPS it flys really well, I can go anywhere the efis panel planes go though not as pretty. Manual gear simple and easy, hydro flaps simple and easy. Buy the one that has been maintained the best, if it has newer EFIS all the better. no corrosion, tank seals in good condition(just because more recently sealed doesn't mean better condition), gear maintained( bearings, mods, and donuts), just because MSC is in logs should but doesn't mean better, have a great(knowledgable person) pre buy done( have an annual inspection completed, airworthiness repairs negotiated with seller) It doesn't make sense to save a few thousand dollars and have a quick pre buy inspection done then spend days of AOG aggravation and several thousand dollars replacing and repairing items that could have been found on a real inspection. Radios, exterior, interior, panel are all easily upgraded although expensive, but hard to upgrade a corroded nonflyable airframe, or spending 25-30K of radio budget on an engine that needs overhaul because of misuse or neglect. my 2 pennies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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