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What a TFR Intercept Looks Like


Jeff_S

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For us, these TFR's mainly fall into the category of "irritation", but for commercial operators, all these TFR's cost millions of dollars in added expenses.  Try going through the TSA vetting before flying a jet into PBI while the TFR is up!  Incredible.

If I felt these TFR were actually effective, it would be bearable, but knowing that this is all just window dressing and "fake", really frosts me.

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5 hours ago, Wayne Cease said:

Heck, even a piston plane could do it. That would be especially true if the pilot talking with ATC and cleared for the outer ring.

The 9-11 terrorists had some flight training. Enough knowledge to ask to go to an airport in the outer ring and you'd be too close for anyone to react to the problem unless a fighter was already in the air and nearby.
 

I went through the MD-3 vetting process about 2 or 3 years ago. My first flight to College Park (CGS) was on a semi-VFR day and I had filed IFR. Over Baltimore I was descended (late ofc)  towards CGS and broke out around 3000ft looking at a landscape I'd never seen before. CGS was very hard to find with its short runway and given that I was higher than I should have been.

When I visually acquired it it was too late to go straight in or properly join the pattern so I tell Potomac Apr that I'll fly over the field (all the time heading straight for the Mall in the not so far distance) and join a left downwind. So I get myself down to pattern altitude by midfield, having made the CTAF calls to make sure ATC was right about there being no other traffic. Focusing hard on timing base turn (did I mention the narrow and short runway and unfamiliar sight picture?). On base, quick scan left and right to clear the airspace. And, there he is...3000ft offset laterally from the runway threshold at pattern altitude....all black and hovering and watching. Not sure what branch he was but having a Blackhawk hanging there observing your every move is an interesting experience. I don't doubt that if I hadn't turned and joined the pattern I would have had a close up view quite quickly :)

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11 hours ago, jonhop said:

Anyone who thinks a TFR--other than the presidential TFR--makes anyone on the ground safer is not very imaginative... Also, I have my doubts about the effectiveness of the presidential TFR except over the White House / DC area. 

I think the fire-fighting TFRs are a good idea.  Sports arenas and politicians not so much.

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On 1/15/2018 at 8:11 AM, SantosDumont said:

VIP TFRs are stupid. Let’s shut down the whole city and inconvenience everyone because some dude is in town?  Stay home and do a broadcast from the East Lawn. 

I think VIP travel has just gotten out of hand. The other day I was up in North Vegas trying to cross the freeway to get to a meeting and they had shut down the streets with onramps and overpasses to create a corridor for Pence. Took me an hour to find a way around. If they want secure travel they can take a helicopter instead of creating a traffic nightmare for thousands of normal people. 

Remember when the entire area around Kitty Hawk was closed on the anniversary of flight because the president was there. Oh the irony.

 

-Robert

 

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On 1/15/2018 at 11:49 AM, flyboy0681 said:

I definitely heard a fighter pass over my house Saturday morning, although I haven't read about any intercepts that had taken place.

The whole subject is bewildering to me because local news outlets have reported that over a dozen TFR violations have taken place since January 1st. How in this day and age can a guy go up and not know there are restrictions in place? 

The intercept that I heard was reported. Like I said, in this day and age how could any pilot be caught unaware?

TFR.jpg

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The intercept that I heard was reported. Like I said, in this day and age how could any pilot be caught unaware?
TFR.jpg.48d15f9af4f07291d1eccdc67ffee360.jpg


Easy. Don’t read the TFR website. Don’t get a briefing. Don’t have an app that displays TFRs on the your iPad.

I remember when I was over at Air Mods during the summer Dave Matheson told me about a TFR violation. A Mooney owner had washed his plane and decided to air dry it by flying. He came back with F-16 wing men. According to Dave he was so shook up that he nearly crashed while landing.

One of the nice things about the ADS-B in stuff is that you will get these changes when a TFR goes up and down. I saw this first hand on a trip to N87. No TFR on the Aspen going there, one coming back.


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On 1/15/2018 at 8:35 AM, Mooneymite said:

On the "anti-Trump scale" this was only about a 2, or 3.  There was actually some truth mixed in.  :P

IMO...the whole subject of TFR's needs to be re-visited with a reality check.  As presently done, TFR's provide 99% inconvenience to pilots flying legitmate flights and virtually no protection from a real threat.

You’re making so much sense it would make s bureaucrats head spin. It’s interesting they claim 5000 intercepts since 9/11 yet say nothing about how many intercepts turned out to be credible and intentional threats to the president or national security. My guess is that it is near enough to zero as makes no difference. 

A giant waste of resources delivering little more than security pageantry.

Meanwhile a fence jumper with a knife and a gyrocopter pilot walk into a bar...

 

Edited by Shadrach
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On 1/15/2018 at 5:41 PM, gsxrpilot said:

I certainly have no love for the current occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania.  But I don't think the VIP TFR's have anything to do with politics. These were put in place by the Secret Service, Homeland Security, and FAA. Politicians have to be able to travel. And it's not their fault that the security apparatus has over reacted to 9/11 and continues to over react.

TFR's and TSA - Security theatre, a waste of time and money.

Absolutely agree about it not being political (though those of opposing political views will always beat up on the office holder for it). What it is about is the nature of any agency whose annual budget is defined by how much they spent and not how well they spent the previous year. Washington more than anywhere else equates spending with success. If that’s your most important metric, you get what DHS and TSA have become. Large agencies directing pilots in multimillion dollar military aircraft to practice intercepts on GA aircraft and hall monitors taking pocket knives and pouring out shampoo bottles. All of it could disappear tomorrow with little effect on public safety.

Even if the security risks were to increase slightly, the trade off would be worth it. TSA and DHS budgets constituted nearly 50 billion dollars. 

Edited by Shadrach
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  • 1 month later...

18 years ago I was at a very nice reception on the top floor of a building in NY.  It was an eerie experience, we were above the cloud deck.  At the time, I would have thought it silly and stupid to have air defense around Manhattan. A year later I was in AK fishing, came in off the Kenai to find that building was on the news, it was coming down along with its immediate neighbor .  We got to stay in a rat hole of a hotel for 4 days, the airport was completely shut down, no air travel anywhere, people were renting cars or even buying them to drive back to the CONUS.  Now that the building is gone and there are no more receptions up there I don’t think it is so stupid anymore.  I get a briefing before I go anywhere, and I have one of those apps that displays TFRs.  I am not complaining, no matter who is in office or how dumb they are.

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  • 2 years later...
3 hours ago, KMale said:

"One of the biggest threat is from the air", seriously? Can I even watch the rest of this or maybe I should just consider it fictional entertainment, along the lines of The Walking Dead. Ok, I'll 'try' to finish it. 

Welcome aboard KM!

There is a reason for such out of sync with reality information, right?

You know you just responded to a two year aged post...

Welcome to the world of necro-posting...:)

Just an FYI...

Best regards,

-a-

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