N201XG comes home

[adverseyaw]

Hi, everyone! I'm a new Mooney owner -- I recently bought and ferried N201XG, a 1978 201, from its last owner in Texas to my base in Seattle.

I decided to buy a plane back in September of last year and settled pretty quickly on an M20J. I did a little bit of looking at Bonanzas and Super Vikings but, as I'm sure you know, the M20 (and in particular the J model) had a really attractive mix of efficiency and speed and features. It also fit my mission profile pretty well, which was generally 0-2 passengers for quick flights within a 400nm radius. The fact that the M20 isn't immensely popular also appealed to me. I daily drove a Porsche 914 for years and I like something that's a little quirky and unusual.

I was really methodical about selecting a 201, and have a spreadsheet filled with details on every M20J I found on the market in the last few months, organized by a scale of 1-3: "1" planes were exactly what I was looking for, "2" planes would do if I couldn't find a suitable "1" plane, and "3" planes you probably couldn't pay me to take. I did pricing workups on most and ended up with analyses of varying levels of 68 aircraft in all.

N201XG was one of 8 aircraft I took a really close look at, and after spending a lot of time with remarkably patient and helpful selling broker, I bought the plane and moved it from its last base in Texas to its current home in Seattle.

It turns out that N201XG spent 16 years in the Puget Sound area, from 1983 through 1999. Some of the maintenance logs show entries from Galvin Flying, the local flight school (and MSC before they got out of the repair business) where I met my insurance minimums in a rental M20J, N161MP. After that, N201XG spent 17 years in new England and 2 in Texas. 

This plane has a recently overhauled engine with the Firewall Forward 225hp STC, which was previously installed in the plane in 1987, then removed in 1999, before being reinstalled in 2017.

It's an amazing plane and I've had a blast on local flights. I'm looking forward to expanding my radius as the weather warms and I work through the small list of remaining minor maintenance issues.

Feels pretty neat to have an aircraft that has such a long history in my neighborhood.

 

[Bug Smasher]

Congratulations! 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, adverse!

-a-

[adverseyaw]

Thanks both! :-D

[carusoam]

When you get a chance... update your avatar info.  

BugSmasher beat me to the Welcome!

Best regards,

-a-

[Raptor05121]

Did I read that right? 225hp in a J model? What engine? I need more details!

Welcome to the forum!

[xcrmckenna]

That is awesome. Glad to see another Mooney in the PNW. Your story is almost exactly like mine. I live in eastern Oregon and drove 16 hours round trip to get checked out in one of Galvin 201’s. Any chance Jim or Dave was your CFII? I was flying N1021K. It took me just about two years to find N201NU, and I found it in Texas as well. It was a blast flying it back. If you are on Facebook and if you haven’t found the page check out FATPNW. Flights Above The Pacific North West. Great group of aviation fans....


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[Hank]

4 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said:

Did I read that right? 225hp in a J model? What engine? I need more details!
 

Google knows all, and it is only for Js . . . .  

http://thenewfirewallforward.com/tnfwf_2012-2013_new_006.htm

Edited January 14, 2018 by Hank

[adverseyaw]

Firewall Forward out of Loveland, CO offers it as an STC: http://thenewfirewallforward.com/tnfwf_2012-2013_new_006.htm

It's a stock IO-360 crankcase and cylinders with high-compression pistons out of an HIO-360 plus some limitations and placards on maximum MP under certain conditions.

[adverseyaw]

@xcrmckenna nah, I flew with Kory. 1021K was down for an engine overhaul while I was getting my hours in. 161MP may actually be down for long-term repairs now that 1021K is back in the air.

@Hank beat me by mere seconds 

[Hank]

11 minutes ago, carusoam said:

When you get a chance... update your avatar info.  

 . . . with an in-flight photo of your high-powered ASI. Wish they could give my O-360 more ponies, higher VSI and longer range on less fuel! 

[jasona900]

9 hours ago, adverseyaw said:

Hi, everyone! I'm a new Mooney owner -- I recently bought and ferried N201XG, a 1978 201, from its last owner in Texas to my base in Seattle.

I decided to buy a plane back in September of last year and settled pretty quickly on an M20J. I did a little bit of looking at Bonanzas and Super Vikings but, as I'm sure you know, the M20 (and in particular the J model) had a really attractive mix of efficiency and speed and features. It also fit my mission profile pretty well, which was generally 0-2 passengers for quick flights within a 400nm radius. The fact that the M20 isn't immensely popular also appealed to me. I daily drove a Porsche 914 for years and I like something that's a little quirky and unusual.

I was really methodical about selecting a 201, and have a spreadsheet filled with details on every M20J I found on the market in the last few months, organized by a scale of 1-3: "1" planes were exactly what I was looking for, "2" planes would do if I couldn't find a suitable "1" plane, and "3" planes you probably couldn't pay me to take. I did pricing workups on most and ended up with analyses of varying levels of 68 aircraft in all.

N201XG was one of 8 aircraft I took a really close look at, and after spending a lot of time with remarkably patient and helpful selling broker, I bought the plane and moved it from its last base in Texas to its current home in Seattle.

It turns out that N201XG spent 16 years in the Puget Sound area, from 1983 through 1999. Some of the maintenance logs show entries from Galvin Flying, the local flight school (and MSC before they got out of the repair business) where I met my insurance minimums in a rental M20J, N161MP. After that, N201XG spent 17 years in new England and 2 in Texas. 

This plane has a recently overhauled engine with the Firewall Forward 225hp STC, which was previously installed in the plane in 1987, then removed in 1999, before being reinstalled in 2017.

It's an amazing plane and I've had a blast on local flights. I'm looking forward to expanding my radius as the weather warms and I work through the small list of remaining minor maintenance issues.

Feels pretty neat to have an aircraft that has such a long history in my neighborhood.

 

Congrats on your purchase!!  Would love to see more pics when you can post them.  Also, I am curious to hear your opinion on the 225HP STC.

[amillet]

I owned N201XG (with 2 partners) from 1989 to 1994.  I’m just a short hop away in Sequim. I’m taking our current “J” model to Troutdale’s Mooney service center today or tomorrow for its annual, and installation of LED strobe/nav lights and 406 ELT.  We’ll have to meet up when I get the plane back. 

[rbridges]

57 minutes ago, jasona900 said:

Congrats on your purchase!!  Would love to see more pics when you can post them.  

I agree.  From what I can tell, it has a newer paint scheme.  

[ArtVandelay]

I have to ask, what’s the ballpark cost of the extra 25 Hp over standard engine?

[adverseyaw]

@amillet absolutely! Drop a line when you're around.

 

@teejayevans I'm not certain exactly. I believe the work is just the pistons and the STC paperwork, and this is just a guess, but I think the total is probably between $2k and $5k. But, since this requires pulling all of the cylinders off, it's the kind of thing you'd want an engine shop to do (e.g. at overhaul).

The plane is too new to me to know whether it's worth it. It runs a little hotter than the other Mooneys I've been in, but that could just be due to worn baffles and, it could be timed to 25 degrees BTDC. I can keep the CHTs in the green with some attention but will have that checked out next time I'm in the shop, and that may make it a little more useful. Ask me later this year and I'll probably have a better opinion about the STC.

[carusoam]

Expect the higher compression ratio to generate higher CHTs...

This, and engine timing, create more power at the cost of generating additional heat...

It will be interesting to see how well an informed MSer can operate the engine, compared to less informed, ordinary Mooney pilots...

Got an engine monitor with that?

What CHTs are you seeing so far?

Best regards,

-a-

 

[ArtVandelay]

I vaguely remember something about using helicopter pistons up the compression to 10:1 .

If they are burning fuel more efficiently (which results in higher HP), then the engine should run cooler, less energy being expended as heat. With the higher compression, higher chance of detonation, I would think timing would be 20°? I like to have this STC, power flow exhaust and electronic ignition; what’s that, 250HP?

[adverseyaw]

It's got a JPI 800. CHTs will climb past 385 if I keep it full rich at the MP restriction (28.2" below 1800') unless I flatten the climb to 130+. Cowl flaps open, naturally. I'd like to keep it at 380 degrees.

The baffles are pretty tired so that's an obvious thing to clean up, and I'll look at the timing too next time I poke at the engine. I'm not sure what kind of CHT probes are on there and because it's got a Tanis 100 heater on it, it's possible the probes are the gasket type. For now, I'll just keep it dialed back and will fly it in the green until I know more about how the engine is set up.

[N601RX]

I remember a few threads on here over the last few years concerning the FF high compression STC. There was a couple of people that paid to have it installed and then paid more later to have it removed. Anyone who is considering using FF for anything should google their name.  

[carusoam]

16 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

I vaguely remember something about using helicopter pistons up the compression to 10:1 .

If they are burning fuel more efficiently (which results in higher HP), then the engine should run cooler, less energy being expended as heat. With the higher compression, higher chance of detonation, I would think timing would be 20°? I like to have this STC, power flow exhaust and electronic ignition; what’s that, 250HP?

Expect that there may be additional fuel flow that goes with the extra hp.  Making the improvement in efficiency not show up as lower temps...

Just looking at the compression cycle for a moment... the PVT relationship shows that the additional compression leads to higher base line gas temps before lighting off the mixture.

Adverse, Got any fuel flow data to go with MP and rpm?

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

Expect that there may be additional fuel flow that goes with the extra hp.  Making the improvement in efficiency not show up as lower temps...
Just looking at the compression cycle for a moment... the PVT relationship shows that the additional compression leads to higher base line gas temps before lighting off the mixture.
Adverse, Got any fuel flow data to go with MP and rpm?
Best regards,
-a-

According to their web site, FF is less: +9mph with -0.5 gph as compared with stock 201.

[carusoam]

I think the claims were what some people paid for...

And their truth may have been different than the claims for some people.  

 

Similarly, it has taken a while for everyone to see the relationship of CHT vs. timing.  At least the timing generates an actual easier to understand and measure efficiency/hp improvement.  Plenty of corroborating evidence around MS....

On the other hand, There are some people that probably don't take advantage of that either....

A similar situation is the O3 powered ships.  The additional 10% more power that is available is great for T/O and climb, but uses a lot of fuel in extended cruising... hence the lowered MP/rpm/hp for cruise... burning more fuel in the same amount of time has a tendency to raise CHTs if other things are not taken into account.  Airspeed, FF, OAT...

 

Looking forward to seeing if AY can post some data as he becomes more familiar with his ship...

 

There just aren't a lot on MS to compare notes on actual MS-ian Type Flying....

Best regards,

-a-

[FlyinAggie14]

Congrats on the plane!  It was also nice to meet you two weeks ago at BFI.  Cant wait to do some flying soon!

[adverseyaw]

54 minutes ago, N601RX said:

I remember a few threads on here over the last few years concerning the FF high compression STC. There was a couple of people that paid to have it installed and then paid more later to have it removed. Anyone who is considering using FF for anything should google their name.  

I did some digging prior to purchase.

On one hand, I've heard about warranty disputes and one secondhand case where a customer was pretty unhappy about the way accessories were installed on an engine in a twin Beech.

On the other, these complaints were all at least a few years old and they've had documented changes in ownership since then. I called the BBB in Denver and they confirmed zero complaints in the last three years.

There are enough FF powerplants out there that it's pretty self-evident they're familiar with overhauling engines.

On balance, I like that they're an experienced engine shop. I dislike the prospect of following up if I have to make a warranty claim, but the evidence says to me that they won't leave me hanging.

Plus, we're all just one prop strike away from an overhaul anyway.

Edited January 14, 2018 by adverseyaw