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Mechanics upcharge for parts?


AaronC

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Just now, RobertGary1 said:

And anyone who is military, veteran, or CAP member gets the same discount. 

-Robert

And Spruce will let anyone have an account and share in the same huge discounts.

Clarence

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I'll comment in a different direction. I have had this issue with my IA at annual. He likes to buy at specific places so that he establishes a rapport, he probably gets a Christmas cake or something every year. The thing is, he pays more than what I have found online, etc. This year he grudgingly went to Aviall for my donuts and he charged me $80 apiece--his price since he has an account. Then he turned around and (lightly) gouged me on the install labor.

He once asked me if I took parts to my auto mechanic to use and he has a point. Mercedes would never use a part I brought them and, of course, they charge me top dollar for anything that goes on the car. 

I guess it all evens out in the end.

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1 minute ago, HRM said:

He once asked me if I took parts to my auto mechanic to use and he has a point. Mercedes would never use a part I brought them and, of course, they charge me top dollar for anything that goes on the car. 

I guess it all evens out in the end.

It's not against the law for you to replace any part on your Mercedes yourself, either . . . Buy it, put it on, drive away. Can't do that with much on your Mooney.

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Just now, Hank said:

It's not against the law for you to replace any part on your Mercedes yourself, either . . . Buy it, put it on, drive away. Can't do that with much on your Mooney.

...and the Mooney isn't nearly as complex as the AMG. 

Oh if I could just put her engine on the E--rip the wings right off!

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I would expect a bit of a mark up on any part that someone else took the time to look up, make the phone call or place the online order,  receive the package, open the box, and verify the contents are indeed what was ordered. Especially if all this activity took place inside of a building that said mechanic was paying rent, leased, or owned. Some shops have a "no customer supplied parts" policy. that typically is so they can control and keep record of parts they installed. This comes in handy when the FAA comes asking for all the service records of a particular aircraft that has had a mishap.

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It’s worth a premium to go somewhere that resolves issues quickly and correctly.  Unfortunately, hourly rates don’t always relate to the quality of service.  How is it possible to know that when you are AOG away from home? 

Gladys goes in for her annual this month.  It probably wasn’t a good tactical move to tell Clarence a few weeks ago that he should bump up his hourly rates.  Timing is everything. ;)

 

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14 hours ago, Bayern Speed said:

I would expect a bit of a mark up on any part that someone else took the time to look up, make the phone call or place the online order,  receive the package, open the box, and verify the contents are indeed what was ordered. Especially if all this activity took place inside of a building that said mechanic was paying rent, leased, or owned. Some shops have a "no customer supplied parts" policy. that typically is so they can control and keep record of parts they installed. This comes in handy when the FAA comes asking for all the service records of a particular aircraft that has had a mishap.

Every time this debate comes up I ask what do people think is a reasonable mark up on parts? 10, 20,30, 40% Does this mark up include shipping or does the shop get to add that?  

The free Spruce shipping on orders of 500 is in the US only, not Canada, typical cost to bring an order in from the US is $100.  UPS and Fed Ex make more on some parts than I do.

Clarence 

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I keep telling JD that he needs to start marking up parts that he buys and installs at SWTA. I would think 15% would be appropriate. Certainly some parts take 5 minutes to order, but I've also seen Laura on the phone half the day trying to track down a part. I also see the times that incorrect parts are delivered and a couple of times parts have been damaged in transit. The shop has to handle all of that. 

I'd guess that we'd all be happier giving the shop 15% on parts for the service rather than some of us being charged the actual time spent dealing with parts orders, delivery, returns, stocking, etc.

With the mag issue I had a month ago, it was already 4pm when we cracked open the mag and realized it had evidently been recently dredged up off the titanic where it had spent a few years before being installed in my Mooney. I wanted to leave on a trip the day after tomorrow. Laura had already ordered a rebuild kit for the mag a few hours earlier. As soon as we opened the mag, she quietly disappeared. We were all marveling over the condition of the mag. Laura returns an hour later to let us know the rebuild kit has been canceled and after talking to four suppliers, had found me a left mag to be FedEx'd for morning arrival. Three of the four suppliers had them in stock, but she'd found the best price on one, and a guarantee that it would be in their shop by 10am... then she billed me the actual cost. I tell them all the time to start marking up parts. I'd like to have them stay in business for a good long time to look after my Mooney. And to do that a shop's got to turn a profit.

And that's my $0.02 + 15%

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We used to charge 25% as a standard mark up on parts, the mark up on avionics was sometimes more depending on the unit. I'd be willing to bet anyone on the forum who takes their car to the dealer pays at least $20-40 more per hour for labor than their aircraft mechanic charges, so think about that next time you want to gripe on the guy who puts their reputation and potentially career on the line when they sign their name in your logbook. I have always worked with owners in the past that wanted to supply their own parts and it usually isn't a big deal. As others have mentioned, if you are AOG and you're away from home, you're going to pay for it. 

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10 hours ago, HRM said:

He once asked me if I took parts to my auto mechanic to use and he has a point. Mercedes would never use a part I brought them and, of course, they charge me top dollar for anything that goes on the car.

I don't take parts to my auto mechanic but they also bill hours very differently.  When I get my car repaired I get a very accurate estimate based upon a published table of how many hours that repair should take.  For aviation maintenance the estimates are usually ballpark and I pay for actual hours.

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6 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

All of this is why I won’t work on small airplanes. I applaud Clarence for persevering in the very tough GA market. 

This is what scares me (people not willing to work on my plane).  I've watched an owner (not Mooney) give the local FBO a hard time on a $300 bill.  This was the same guy that the owner has helped for free at least twice that I know of.  Just pay your bill and let them make some money.  If you are a good customer, most shops and owners take care of you (my experience only).  If the bill is that outrageous don't go there.  I too have paid a HUGE bill while transient...just part of the game.

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Guest Mike261

In my industry we mark up time and materials jobs parts according to what the overhead and desired profit is.

software will tell you what the running overhead is. 20 percent for us...includes rent, office salaries etc. Office salaries don't generate revenue per se...no wrenches turning.

then there is warranty reserve which is spread across the whole year, we have labor costs associated with any warranty repair, also if my mechanic has to talk to you for any length of time when you call, or come by...and then explain the repair when you pick up he or she is being paid. you need to pay for that as well.

How many times through out the year do people stroll in and chat with a mechanic? or call on the phone? its part of the business, a necessary evil for the owner. its also overhead. unproductive time is a reality in any business, and is mostly beneficial to keeping customers. 

warranty is a small percentage when spread across all jobs, but it is still a number. call it one percent.

insurance is the killer, its spread across the materials and labor, and i imagine its much higher for the A&P as a percentage than mine is.

right off the bat we have a 20 percent mark up without considering insurance. These costs are there every month, and when you hand me a part you got from EBAY I still have to pay the rent without the benefit of markup on the parts. I get the markup built into the hourly labor charge, but it is only part of the equation.

I think a 30 percent markup on materials would be pretty close to reality.

In the end the customer pays for the building, the lights, the help...every single thing. it ain't cheap.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I keep telling JD that he needs to start marking up parts that he buys and installs at SWTA. I would think 15% would be appropriate. Certainly some parts take 5 minutes to order, but I've also seen Laura on the phone half the day trying to track down a part. I also see the times that incorrect parts are delivered and a couple of times parts have been damaged in transit. The shop has to handle all of that. 

I'd guess that we'd all be happier giving the shop 15% on parts for the service rather than some of us being charged the actual time spent dealing with parts orders, delivery, returns, stocking, etc.

With the mag issue I had a month ago, it was already 4pm when we cracked open the mag and realized it had evidently been recently dredged up off the titanic where it had spent a few years before being installed in my Mooney. I wanted to leave on a trip the day after tomorrow. Laura had already ordered a rebuild kit for the mag a few hours earlier. As soon as we opened the mag, she quietly disappeared. We were all marveling over the condition of the mag. Laura returns an hour later to let us know the rebuild kit has been canceled and after talking to four suppliers, had found me a left mag to be FedEx'd for morning arrival. Three of the four suppliers had them in stock, but she'd found the best price on one, and a guarantee that it would be in their shop by 10am... then she billed me the actual cost. I tell them all the time to start marking up parts. I'd like to have them stay in business for a good long time to look after my Mooney. And to do that a shop's got to turn a profit.

And that's my $0.02 + 15%

JD and Laura are a class act. They view this type of customer service as an advertising expense vs a revenue source. Just this post by you alone Paul will increase their customer count. Consider what Mr. Chase will be saying about this mechanic vs what Paul is saying. Who will go to the mechanic that Mr. Chase is using by choice?
Disclaimer: JD is one of the 4 Super MSC's that are contributing an annual inspection to the Mooney Summit Silent auction in 2018. 
Thanks JD, your generosity will be well rewarded!

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In most states you cannot be charged more for car repairs than the estimate you agreed to. It is nice knowing what the bill will be ahead of time. 

Hour padding certainly happens, even at the most respected Mooney shops. When I used to take my Mooney to MSC's I'd often find hour padding. I found a 2 hour charge for a prop balance that was sub'd out to a prop shop (2 hours to push the plane next door). I found one mechanic charged me for more hours than the plane was there. In those cases I was able to talk the bill down but those are just the times I knew about.

But they say if you just drop your plane off to have it worked on without your involvement you're probably not concerned about cost anyway.

-Robert

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16 hours ago, M20Doc said:

It’s an old debate.  As a shop owner I mark up things we handle, it covers cost of shipping receiving and dealing with the supplier on behalf of you the customer and dealing with warranty issues later and using my money for the transaction.

The shop you’re at should not have an issue revealing what the mark up is, he may not be sourcing from the same place you got the $600 price from.

With an exchange unit there is also the issue of the core deposit to deal with, no shop want to be stuck with the core charge back after the customer is long gone.

Clarence

I can agree that it also covers the warranty period when the part goes south and in good faith they repair replace it for free.  As a shop owner myself the mark up usually covers the expenses of the shop anywhere from 10% - 45% markup.  Obviously higher markups wean the customer base down to only those who don't care.    Welcome to the club.  Finding shops that don't take advantage of stranded pilots is difficult.  I had my experience of an oil cooler that should have been no more that 1500.00 installed.  4200 dollars later I will never go back and could rent a car twice and fly and get the parts commercially and still have change left over.  I think we all have been there and a lot of us belong to the CB club but without markups the good APs couldn't survive.  I think a markup and fair time is needed you just have to find an honest AP that is looking for repeat business.  Once you find one that you can trust treat them right and you will forever have a happy plane.

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36 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

In Ontario the sales tax rate is 13% on almost everything excluding tampons.  Its only reasonable that a shop should make more than the government.

Clarence

I noticed that in Vancouver there was a combination of federal VAT, provincial sales tax and local tax.

-Robert

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I just want to clarify a few items on my last post.  First, I mentioned "reasonable" mark-up.  Aaron's situation is not what I would consider "reasonable mark-up".  I was responding more to some that think there should be no mark-up.  Secondly, there is a huge difference between an A&P and/or an IA working independently and a licensed shop.  I've used both and clearly the overhead is much different.  Many independents would rather NOT deal with getting the parts.  A licensed shop must deal with a ton more things that bleed off profit, either in time or money, that the independent guy does not.  

A few things come into play on how customers are treated, and whether they will come back.  That "reasonable mark-up" will most times never be questioned by a customer that has a good trusting relationship with their shop.  When a shop treats on "out of towner" differently than a regular customer, at some point word will get out and that treatment will likely affect "some" future business.  Taking care of the customer fairly will lead to more business, and likely that customer sending new business to you as well.  No amount of TV ads and other advertising will bring you more business than a good reputation and satisfied customers.  

In the end, most of us can figure out who we want to spend money with.  We've had enough feedback over the years it's easy to see who will treat you right when you grace their doors.  No one in business is perfect, but if they are honest and make a serious attempt to treat you right, that's 90% of the business relationship.  Some mentioned in this thread are clearly in that category, and some are not.  Just don't through them all into the same basket.

Tom

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3 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

I noticed that in Vancouver there was a combination of federal VAT, provincial sales tax and local tax.

-Robert

The combined federal and provincial or Harmonized sales tax rate in BC is 12% as far as I know.  Generally municipalities and cities are able to add sales taxes.

Clarence

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Personally I think we should be grateful for our mechanic pay his bill and say thank you. That's the relationship I have with my A&P. He knows I value and appreciate all his help whenever my Mooney needs something. If I call him for something he'll accomodate me even if it's after hours. Of course I would never call him to come out after hours unless it was some kind of emergency. He is in business to provide a service and deserves to make a profit.

As far as the op is concerned he says his mag failed away from home. He found a mechanic on the field willing to help him so he could get on his way. He is lucky for that and should be grateful. 

Having said that we do need to be careful and pick a mechanic wisely. Unfortunately this is difficult to do with an aog away from home. I wish there was some kind of website where people could post their experiences with shops we may not be familiar with when away from home.

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