Mechanics upcharge for parts?

[AaronC]

I'm new to airplane ownership, and not sure if it's normal for a shop to upcharge for parts? My specific example is my mag failed on a field away from home. Found the mechanic on the field to replace it. I obviously did research to find out that my Bendix mag would cost about $600 for a rebuild. When he quoted $1000 for the rebuild only, I questioned it. Long story short, he admitted that he was adding the extra as an upcharge, and "it's business". I really don't have a choice, so he's changing it, but curious if that's normal practice? If so, I will shut my mouth and chalk it up to the cost of ownership... With his shop rate at $110hr, it'll be an expensive Mag.  

[MIm20c]

AOG away from home base are always difficult. I think every mechanic has their own policy on charges.  Some don’t want you to be around so extra fat is added to the hrs billed. Others have a “retail” price on parts. I hope everything works out and you get in the air ASAP. 

[1964-M20E]

Yes they do up charge for parts.  It is a business and especially if he has it in stock for you and you don't have to wait for the part to be overhauled and shipped out and in.  Is $400 on a $600 part unreasonable I guess that will vary on who you talk to.  Some shops will up charge more than others.  Unfortunately, you are in a bind.  I paid over $600 for a nose tire and tube but the mechanic was there on a Sunday has the parts and I was on my way in a little more than an hour.  I was only a 1.5 hour drive from home but it would have been  a logistical nightmare.

 

How much shop time did he charge?    I know my former E it would take a little bit to get all those screws out of the upper cowling to remove it.

 

 

[mooniac15u]

The mechanics I use upcharge for new parts but not for sending out an existing part for repair. 

[lotsofgadgets]

welcome to the club!  I had to replace the ignition harness on a dual mag over the holiday.  local shop wanted $650 for the part which didn't seem bad except it would take several days for the supplier to build and ship the part.  I called around and found one in stock at AERO for $430 and offered to buy/ship it directly to the shop ($61 for Fedex standard overnight).  They insisted that their parts department would handle it.   Surprise, they marked the part up to $580 and charged $149 for shipping.  If I would have ordered the part myself I would still have to pay a 15% markup, but that would still have saved me several hundred dollars.  To add insult to injury there was another $100 in shipping charges for 2 single wire clamps, 2 dual wire clamps and 2 baffle plates.  They also charged me for 11 hours of labor.  They didn't even have to do any diagnosis.  I had done all the troubleshooting and identified 2 leads that were arcing causing the rough mag check.  The total repair bill was over $1900.  This is the last time I use that shop as they obviously don't have any regard for their customers.    I understand that aircraft mechanics are not a charity and we do need to pay for their services, but this was borderline fraud.     

[jetdriven]

I wish you guys would post the names of the shops that do rhis so we can make informed decisions. 

[Guest]

It’s an old debate.  As a shop owner I mark up things we handle, it covers cost of shipping receiving and dealing with the supplier on behalf of you the customer and dealing with warranty issues later and using my money for the transaction.

The shop you’re at should not have an issue revealing what the mark up is, he may not be sourcing from the same place you got the $600 price from.

With an exchange unit there is also the issue of the core deposit to deal with, no shop want to be stuck with the core charge back after the customer is long gone.

Clarence

[AaronC]

All the more reason for me to get my A&P.

Let me say that I have no problem with shops making money. They are in business after all. I've owned a few businesses I understand the game... but will say that I took care of my customers, in hopes I kept them. This post was really me trying to figure out if this was normal operations for shops. If it is, then I have nothing to complain about, it's just the cost of doing business. When doing business with people, I just want to feel that I'm being treated fairly, and not being ripped off. 

The owner admitted that he was paying $600 for the rebuilt mag, and that I was paying $1000 for it.  To me that seems excessive when I'm paying for the hours of work as well... but again, if that's industry standard.......

I have no problem telling people the name of the shop... just not going to do it publicly until I get my airplane back. :-) 

Not sure what the total bill/ hours will be... he just got the plane today.

[Becca]

I think there's a wide variety of mechanics practices.  For what it's worth if the mechanic is going to provide a part to you, don't expect them to do it at their cost they are going to get a premium to re-sell it to you.  But mechanics should allow you the option of finding your own part to avoid this if that's what you choose.

I am sure this practice derives from the day when mechanics had wholesale-style relationships with vendors to get parts at a good price and you were "buying" the service associated with this relationship and their expertise in figuring out the right part.  The internet has made that service decidedly less valuable but it has not changed the practice of many mechanics who can get away with it and consider it part of the profits they are "due."  I personally think requiring you to go through them for parts increases the prices of the services unnecessarily (unless they are making a corresponding reduction in labor rates from the market or providing some value added like spending hours looking for a good priced used part from salvage) and would not opt to go with a mechanic that did this.  

If pilots refuse to use mechanics who require this, the market would force them to change their practices. 

As for me, I would just ask.  If the answer is anything other than "of course we can order parts for you at our markup or you can provide your own," I'd probably opt to find another mechanic, because their are plenty of mechanics that let you supply your own parts.  And sometimes the mark up is worth it because they have the part in stock and can have you flying in a day or you can order it and have it in a week, it may be a service worth paying for.  If the only difference is you calling aircraft spruce or them calling aircraft spruce, I'd feel pretty gouged at the mark up.  

But here you are AOG out of base and you got stuck with who you got stuck with.  If you feel like you were unnecessarily gouged, you should make sure to review the business here or on AirNav or whatever so other pilots can make informed decisions in the future.  Sometimes wen AOG you can also call mechanics from nearby airports to pay a visit (depending on location/situation) if the markup is too unacceptable.  But you don't have to give a mechanic a blank check...

Edited January 9, 2018 by Becca

[Yooper Rocketman]

I had a waste gate fail on the Rocket, was busy with the Lancair, so had my local FBO check it (was an excessive oil leak out one of the vent tubes, so not diagnosed by me).  They removed the waste gate and it was sent out for overhaul.  I have no idea if they marked up the overhauled part, but they should have.  I flew one flight and it was sticking so they had to work on it again under warranty.  It wasn't their problem, but they sold it to me and installed it so had responsibility to get it fixed (and did).

In my dealership we buy most our parts from the factory PDC (parts distribution center), so our wholesale pricing is pretty decent.  We DO have to buy parts regularly from other sources, including a few local auto supply stores.  We mark up the parts a reasonable amount for many reasons.  We did the work finding and often picking up the part.  We're not a non-profit, so if it runs through our books, there's going to be some profit on it.  If the part fails and causes an accident, my company WILL be in the litigation chain.  And finally, if the part fails and needs to be replaced under warranty, my shop performs that repair for FREE, even though it was the part that failed, not a labor warranty.

I have a local limousine company that recently had us take the parts back to NAPA because he wanted to buy them direct himself.  We did and he did.  Napa sold the part to him, a new customer, for the same price as ours (we were doing probably $10k-$15k a year with them).  NAPA no longer sells to m y dealership (our choice and they aren't real happy now).  The final saga to that story; the limousine company comes back after one of the parts failed for us to fix it and wondered why he paid full rate for the "warranty".  I told him take up our labor charge with NAPA, we didn't sell him the part that failed!

To answer the OP's original question.......it's appropriate for a shop to place a reasonable mark-up on parts they sell or charge a small fee for parts brought in the door.  I guess I akin someone bringing parts in the door (that we could easily source, not odd ball stuff) to me bringing my eggs or steak into a restaurant and asking them to cook it for me.

Tom

 

[Yetti]

Yes they should upcharge for parts.   There is look up, ordering, and other time spent.   I think your question is what is an acceptable amount to upcharge

[TTaylor]

4 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Yes they should upcharge for parts.   There is look up, ordering, and other time spent.   I think your question is what is an acceptable amount to upcharge

Most that I have worked with have about a 20% to 25% up-charge.  65% as in this case is getting in to the abuse range.

[cbarnes403]

1 hour ago, AaronC said:

I'm new to airplane ownership, and not sure if it's normal for a shop to upcharge for parts? My specific example is my mag failed on a field away from home. Found the mechanic on the field to replace it. I obviously did research to find out that my Bendix mag would cost about $600 for a rebuild. When he quoted $1000 for the rebuild only, I questioned it. Long story short, he admitted that he was adding the extra as an upcharge, and "it's business". I really don't have a choice, so he's changing it, but curious if that's normal practice? If so, I will shut my mouth and chalk it up to the cost of ownership... With his shop rate at $110hr, it'll be an expensive Mag.  

Having worked as a A&P for a shop, its normal for them to mark up parts.  With that said I can't remember marking the part up 67%, usually 30-40% was the norm, but he may be covering the core charge in his markup. The final invoice will tell the tale.

[MIm20c]

10 minutes ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

In my dealership we buy most our parts from the factory PDC (parts distribution center), so our wholesale pricing is pretty decent.  We DO have to buy parts regularly from other sources, including a few local auto supply stores.  We mark up the parts a reasonable amount for many reasons.  We did the work finding and often picking up the part.  We're not a non-profit, so if it runs through our books, there's going to be some profit on it.  If the part fails and causes an accident, my company WILL be in the litigation chain.  And finally, if the part fails and needs to be replaced under warranty, my shop performs that repair for FREE, even though it was the part that failed, not a labor warranty.

I have a local limousine company that recently had us take the parts back to NAPA because he wanted to buy them direct himself.  We did and he did.  Napa sold the part to him, a new customer, for the same price as ours (we were doing probably $10k-$15k a year with them).  NAPA no longer sells to m y dealership (our choice and they aren't real happy now). 

I think this is a perfect example of a well run service oriented business.  However, in order to survive the business needs to have a fair rate and / or a healthy margin. I don’t think AS provides a 30 percent savings to A&P’s so the markup is very public.  I feel the mechanic are dealing with the same issue you had with NAPA.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

I had a waste gate fail on the Rocket, was busy with the Lancair, so had my local FBO check it (was an excessive oil leak out one of the vent tubes, so not diagnosed by me).  They removed the waste gate and it was sent out for overhaul.  I have no idea if they marked up the overhauled part, but they should have.  I flew one flight and it was sticking so they had to work on it again under warranty.  It wasn't their problem, but they sold it to me and installed it so had responsibility to get it fixed (and did).

In my dealership we buy most our parts from the factory PDC (parts distribution center), so our wholesale pricing is pretty decent.  We DO have to buy parts regularly from other sources, including a few local auto supply stores.  We mark up the parts a reasonable amount for many reasons.  We did the work finding and often picking up the part.  We're not a non-profit, so if it runs through our books, there's going to be some profit on it.  If the part fails and causes an accident, my company WILL be in the litigation chain.  And finally, if the part fails and needs to be replaced under warranty, my shop performs that repair for FREE, even though it was the part that failed, not a labor warranty.

I have a local limousine company that recently had us take the parts back to NAPA because he wanted to buy them direct himself.  We did and he did.  Napa sold the part to him, a new customer, for the same price as ours (we were doing probably $10k-$15k a year with them).  NAPA no longer sells to m y dealership (our choice and they aren't real happy now).  The final saga to that story; the limousine company comes back after one of the parts failed for us to fix it and wondered why he paid full rate for the "warranty".  I told him take up our labor charge with NAPA, we didn't sell him the part that failed!

To answer the OP's original question.......it's appropriate for a shop to place a reasonable mark-up on parts they sell or charge a small fee for parts brought in the door.  I guess I akin someone bringing parts in the door (that we could easily source, not odd ball stuff) to me bringing my eggs or steak into a restaurant and asking them to cook it for me.

Tom

 

The restaurant should offer a discount on the cooking charge because you saved the cook the trip to the freezer.   

Clarence

[RobertGary1]

They also usually warranty the work so they like to use their own sources. Some use a distributor that does the look up and does their own up charge. 

Some independent mechanics will use parts if you hand them to them yourself.

-Robert 

[Becca]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

Yes they should upcharge for parts.   There is look up, ordering, and other time spent.   I think your question is what is an acceptable amount to upcharge

^^ this is the outdated model I referred to that was true pre-computer and drop shipping and on line retailers etc.   Having ordered many parts for our airplane, this whole process takes about 15 minutes for most "replace with new or manufacturers overhaul" cases.  And that's for a rank amateur like me. Byron can order a part from his phone while pouring me a glass of wine.  At $100/hr, that's a $15 service not a 30%+ mark up.   Heck, it took me under an hour to order up a new engine!  Now, on the other hand, ordering replacement hoses was pretty time consuming because of the measurements required, and I can see a reasonable "per hour" charge for that sort of thing...

As I said it would be different if the mechanic was shopping all the options, trying to find something in salvage, or keeping parts in stock (and thus incurring an inventory cost), etc. ---  providing some value added to the transaction.   We've watched mechanics go online and order the first part they come across, or just calling their guy and saying "I need this" -- not even price shop for different retailers all selling it new, so in addition to their 30% markup they aren't even getting the best deal for the base price, they are just going to the place that's fastest for them to order from.  What I'm saying is sometimes there is basically zero value added.

As for warrantying "the work," I guess I don't have much experience with this.  But I would expect a mechanic to always warranty his own labor, regardless of who provides the part, if there is an installation error or something mechanic-caused, mechanic should fix it at their expense.  However, if there is something actually wrong with the mechanic-provided part, it would indeed be value added for the mechanic to cover, as a warranty, an R&R of that part.  So certainly something to consider.  But, I'm not sure it's standard practice, and I am also not sure how often this is necessary -- we've had a couple parts issues and the parts manufacturer under their warranty has paid the labor for the R&R, so its not always the mechanic's "risk."  And I am not sure it's 100% warranty either -- e.g. What if the part goes bad and leaves you AOG, I doubt your mechanic is going to compensate you for the expenses of an off-field repair, etc., even if you did buy the part from them, for the most part you might get a "gee, I'm sorry that happened."   Also the value of that warranty is very dependent on the markup.  Say the markup on the part $300 but the part only takes 1 hr to R&R (so $100) should it actually go bad, seems like it's better to go without warrantying the labor and not pay a markup.   So there's a cost-benefit equation to that. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by Becca

[N601RX]

Mechanics almost never pay the full price a owner would. Even Aircraft Spruce will give an FBO discount. 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, AaronC said:

I'm new to airplane ownership, and not sure if it's normal for a shop to upcharge for parts? My specific example is my mag failed on a field away from home. Found the mechanic on the field to replace it. I obviously did research to find out that my Bendix mag would cost about $600 for a rebuild. When he quoted $1000 for the rebuild only, I questioned it. Long story short, he admitted that he was adding the extra as an upcharge, and "it's business". I really don't have a choice, so he's changing it, but curious if that's normal practice? If so, I will shut my mouth and chalk it up to the cost of ownership... With his shop rate at $110hr, it'll be an expensive Mag.  

This happened to me last spring. He was upfront that he sent the magneto out for overhaul, then added his own margin to it. Plus he charged labor to R&R, plus for troubleshooting to confirm magneto and not something else. My final bill was just over &1600 . . . . And when the magneto failed on the 3 hour flight home, I got to pay more labor but the same overhaul shop fixed it again for free. $500 for a nearby shop to drive 45 minutes and reinstall, but the first guy was way too far away . . .

"It's part of the business." Sure. "That happens when you break down away from home." Uh huh. Certainly doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth, and guarantees that I will thoroughly investigate all options if I ever need assistance when visiting my inlaws again.

[Bob_Belville]

11 minutes ago, N601RX said:

Mechanics almost never pay the full price a owner would. Even Aircraft Spruce will give an FBO discount. 

Not much and not as much as it used to be. I believe Spruce gives a 10% discount, perhaps based upon minimum annual purchases. And they'll give free freight to anyone for a $500. order. 

I just bought a bladder kit from Griggs. $3250. my shop asked about getting a discount as a shop and was told they only had one price. I'm not picking on Griggs, I suspect that's become the common practice in the world of Amazon and big box selling. A reasonably savvy owner, particularly one who considers his time at no cost, can buy as good or better than a mechanic. 

I treat good "vendors" as more important than customers, they tend to be far fewer of them and they are harder to replace. I offer to buy parts through the A&P shop and I encourage them to charge enough to stay in business. No one wins when we drive mechanics out of our industry.

I recognize that not every shop is AGL or Maxwell or Clarence's. Shops that take advantage of stranded transients should be marked. 

[Bob_Belville]

1 minute ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

It's called taking advantage. I will say this, though. There are an equal if not even greater number of mechanics who help stranded pilots even to their own personal disadvantage. It cuts both ways. I think those guys are mostly to be found at small out of the way airports at "mom and pop" shops. 

Jim

Agree. I've witnessed Lynn get more than one transient on his way, some times with no charge at all.

[Hank]

6 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

It's called taking advantage. I will say this, though. There are an equal if not even greater number of mechanics who help stranded pilots even to their own personal disadvantage. It cuts both ways. I think those guys are mostly to be found at small out of the way airports at "mom and pop" shops. 

Jim

Yep. I was AOG at a Charlie, sadly.

[MB65E]

I'm glad you found some one on the road that could do the service for you. Most are not that lucky.

The debate will go on for a long time. 

-Matt

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, N601RX said:

Mechanics almost never pay the full price a owner would. Even Aircraft Spruce will give an FBO discount. 

Typical Spruce discount to a shop is 2-5%.  We sure won’t get rich on that discount.

Clarence

[RobertGary1]

1 minute ago, M20Doc said:

Typical Spruce discount to a shop is 2-5%.  We sure won’t get rich on that discount.

Clarence

And anyone who is military, veteran, or CAP member gets the same discount. 

-Robert