cctsurf Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 Quick question: Is there a reason to fly with cameras all the time? Is it perhaps for insurance reasons (like a dashcam) to show that it was the other guy's fault or for some other reason, or is it just to post to social media or to have a video of the flight to review? What sparks this question is that I just noticed on one of the checklists posted here: https://mooneyspace.com/topic/24059-fancy-smancy-checklist/, turning on go-pro cameras was part of the checklist! It just seems to be very common and I'm curious as to the reason. Considering that external go-pro mounts may need to be certified (though most people fly with totally experimental mounts), I guess I'm kinda surprised that it is so common. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 As far as I'm aware, there's no such thing as "experimental" or "certified" camera mounts. Most any mount that can be installed without modifying the airplane (no cutting, drilling, etc.) and can be removed without tools is acceptable. Some people have permanently installed other mounts, and have A&P sign off in their logbook. Several people here use sticky mounts, peel and stick adhesive that can be easily removed; one reported being asked by an FAA Inspector to remove it due to its location, not because it was an "unapproved" mount. Personally, I'd like to record some video with radio / intercom that also shows the panel, but apparently the contrast between the dark panel and bright light outside is too great . . . . It would be a great way to chair fly when I can't fly for real. As far as proving fault in an incident, those are so incredibly rare in a pilot's career that spending an AMU or more to do so would be quite rare. I just like watching them, and especially remembering my own flights. Just need to find a better way to do so more often! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWinter Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 I do it once in a while for various reasons. Sometimes just to post to social media, you would be surprised how much it sparks an interest in my flying when someone sees a flight I might share on social media. Encourages people to support your local GA (including your local airport). I also video once in awhile just to evaluate my own performance..How's my landings looking, high, low or am I dialed in are all over the place. Lots of reasons. The checklist you mention is probably someone's personal list and they are avid about the video of their flights.. I appreciate people that video. I even watched some as part of my "pre-flight" to upcoming airport I might be scheduled to fly to. Gets me a great idea of what to expect..for that I thank the video flyers. I think it's a great learning tool. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctsurf Posted January 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 I'm just curious on the reasoning, because I also don't see incidents as a reason, let alone most of the other reasons I mentioned. That's why I asked the question. I guess I can see arm-chair flying, but usually I have enough projects to fill any arm-char time I have, so not a reason here. I understand the logic on the mounts, however, I can't imagine that even these stick-on mounts do not adversely affect the flight characteristics of the planes. I can barely touch an aileron without an A&P signing off whatever I did, but I can disrupt airflow over it with a comparatively huge camera mount that also affects the laminar flow over the wing. I have difficulty believing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor05121 Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 I have a GoPro that mounts on my headliner viewing forward. With a neutral-density filter, it shows the panel and the outside very well. I use it to go back and judge things (learning to land, flying approaches, etc). Exterior views are quite awesome when doing some specialized flying such as scenery, flying the beach, sunset, etc. I have 4 stick-on mounts all over my plane and have noticed zero difference in speed or handling of my aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 16 minutes ago, cctsurf said: I understand the logic on the mounts, however, I can't imagine that even these stick-on mounts do not adversely affect the flight characteristics of the planes. I can barely touch an aileron without an A&P signing off whatever I did, but I can disrupt airflow over it with a comparatively huge camera mount that also affects the laminar flow over the wing. I have difficulty believing that. I am not big on outside mounts just because I lost one camera to a tractor incident.. but you do throw the gear out and the plane does not fall out of the sky. And before people get up in arms, the screws were replaced with thumbscrews so no tools to remove. and I used the fuzzy part of the velcro between the camera and the mount for vibration control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 The younger you are... The more natural the selfies and video are.... The older you are... The more you list all the computer peripherals on the checklist, just to remember to turn them all on... and shut them all down and unplug them.... If you are wicked old school... The less you use a computer the happier you are. You haven't heard of MS. And foreflight has the demonic magenta line... I found... If you are old and crusty like me... or young and crusty...? I have fear of cameras mounted on or near control surfaces. Just because I have seen the effects of speed brakes... somebody posted a video! I appreciate each time somebody posts a video. I learn so much from how other people fly. It is kind of like flying with them... The chances of me posting a video are pretty slim. I would have to buy the equipment and the smarts to get it installed... I can barely type on an iPad... what keeps you disinterested in flying videos? Add Other high tech memory devices and iPad things to that.... are you a user of CloudAhoy or other flight recording devices? The video is just another part of it. Ways of recording things to make improvements over time... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhop Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 Personally, I like videoing my flights and do so quite often. I've use both an under-wing mount and sticky mounts inside and out. My fabricated under-wing mount can be easily removed without any tools and is totally adjustable... I love reviewing the footage for both the beauty of flight and the mistakes that I've made. I've made a large number of mistakes caught on film that I would have not caught otherwise. I can't think of a better way to review each flight other than flying with my CFII buddy every flight... As far as mount integrity goes, both of them have been stressed to 180KTS with no sign of loss of integrity. The under-wing jack-point mount does cause me to add some rudder in cruise but when the plane is slow--under 130kts--I don't even notice it is there. My favorite location at this point is a Session 5 on the vertical stabilizer. It would be hard for me to believe that this location could cause extreme flight dynamic changes... but then again I'm a low time PP and not an aeronautical engineer. I have not experienced any loss of rudder control with the below mount... and that includes slow flight and stalls. How else could one get bad-A$$ photo's like this: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctsurf Posted January 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 I appreciate your experience, I have to say that I would have anticipated much more adverse effects. I had not seen the speed brake video, but I believe here it is: This was another video that recently brought this question to mind, at first it appeared to me that the plane was covered with cameras. I reviewed it and found that they only used a couple of cameras outside. I didn't think the side view could possibly be from the same camera mounted mid-wing viewable say ~2:16 into the video among other places. but upon review it seems it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 The rain and speed brake video is the one I was referencing. The loss of lift caused by the small devices in combination of the change of AOA to adjust for the lost lift, has a pretty strong braking effect... especially at faster speeds like Vne... The nice thing about the rain video, it gives a hint of how wide the airflow disruption can be. A single speed brake failure leaving one up and one down, is completely manageable. Not something you want to fly around with all the time, but manageable... keep those things in mind when selecting a location for the camera. Also compare to similar things that are acceptable like lights and antennae. Thanks for pulling the videos up. Mr. Bertorelli of AvWeb can sell Acclaims all day with that presentation... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20C_AV8R Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 Personally, I have recorded all but two of my flights over the last two years, a day I forgot the sd card and the day with my DPE for the check ride for my PPL, I primarily use them to debrief my flights, I learn so much by seeing what I did not do well, getting behind the airplane, takeoffs, landings, how I did with my radio calls etc. it also helped me replay my manuevers, being able to listen to my instructors again, many mistakes, good times and some incredible adventures all recorded, I will always do this, it’s part of my routine. You are more than welcome to see some of my videos if you have Instagram, my handle there is #highplanesav8r 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyTrekker Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 hours ago, M20C_AV8R said: Personally, I have recorded all but two of my flights over the last two years, a day I forgot the sd card and the day with my DPE for the check ride for my PPL, I primarily use them to debrief my flights, I learn so much by seeing what I did not do well, getting behind the airplane, takeoffs, landings, how I did with my radio calls etc. it also helped me replay my manuevers, being able to listen to my instructors again, many mistakes, good times and some incredible adventures all recorded, I will always do this, it’s part of my routine. You are more than welcome to see some of my videos if you have Instagram, my handle there is #highplanesav8r I also video and audio record all of my flights and for the same reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 I've also stuck camera mounts all over my plane at different times. I can't see any difference other than maybe a knot or two. I use the sticky mounts and have yet to have one fail. Check out the video section for lots of great inflight footage. But hey, if it's not your thing then fine. But there certainly isn't any reason to fear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Avalle Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 I started recording my flights mainly to check on my own performance. Landing, take off, approaches etc. Then I realized that it is also fun to edit some of them and share them. But mostly I do this to double check on my performance, and if i feel that I did something that I did not like (flat landing etc.) I review the recording and try to learn from it. In terms of performance, overall I did not sense any critical difference. Oscar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 There will never be a go pro anything in the Lucky Strike. No evidence made means no evidence to burn. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 I usually only record the landing and takeoff. Then overlay the speed/time/distance. Droidefb always records the whole flight for review on Google earth. If I post them, then I try to edit them down. The worst videos evar are the ones where the camera is looking at the pilot for the whole flight. eech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 What people use the camera for... 1) Learning Experience... How fast was I going on final... How centered was I... how smooth were my radio communications... What could I have done better on that flight... 2) Sharing Experience... Flight’s From my neck of the Mooney World. great scenery from a vacation flight. IFR flights from clearance delivery to tiedown. 3) Video capture and editing skills... I put in all this effort, somebody might want to see this... The latest hardware, mounts, methods. hardware add ones like filters, batteries, wires and software. 4) Reasons to not capture video... aerodynamics vs camera location. memories of the photo of the fifth heavy person stored in the baggage area. memories of the loaded Mooney stalling and being challenged to maintain control... (near or close to a spin) Some fear of Insurance vs. pilot after the accident with self incriminating video being captured... 5) Other Technologies enjoyed by the same people... collecting and reviewing engine data from an engine monitor. 6) Favorite videos I remember... An MSer Flying his M20C in the Mountains / Volcanos around Central America with a grass home strip... An MSer Flying open air ultra-light cockpit around vacation hotspots in Baja Mexico... 3D videos by an MSer traveling through Mexico... An MSer Flying down the Jersey shore in a Carbon Cub... An MSer Flying his F's continuously updated electronic Cockpit Doing instrument approaches.... An MSer Flying his twin on IFR flights around Florida... An MSer Flying his J from the Arctic circle, to South America, to Cuba while demonstrating the advantages of an AOAi and Mooney flying... MSers and family and friends going places... maintenance issues and how things work... AvWeb's Ultra O... w/ touchscreen panel... Moonies from around the globe, flying by one of the world’s iconic locations. Bridges, buildings, stadiums, runways... Reasons why people don't capture video. No extra Time that is required. No extra Money that is required. No extra skill that is required. No extra interest. PP review of what I think I got out of this thread... Fun Stuff shared... Best regards, -a- 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 This says it all: Fun Stuff shared... Thanks, Anthony! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM20C Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, carusoam said: 4) Reasons to not capture video... aerodynamics vs camera location. memories of the photo of the fifth heavy person stored in the baggage area. This could also fall under #1 1 hour ago, carusoam said: 1) Learning Experience... How fast was I going on final... How centered was I... how smooth were my radio communications... What could I have done better on that flight... Why didn't the airplane climb.. No one would have believed it without a photo. Cheers, Dan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 7 hours ago, DanM20C said: This could also fall under #1 No one would have believed it without a photo. Cheers, Dan But the image was recovered by the NTSB, a butt in each seat and what looked to be 60-70% over the baggage area weight limit for butt #5. If I remember, the pilot had high BAC, too--too high to drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Maybe he was reading that thread of how Mooneys are actually faster with an aft CG condition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcrmckenna Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 I have a GoPro that mounts on my headliner viewing forward. With a neutral-density filter, it shows the panel and the outside very well. I use it to go back and judge things (learning to land, flying approaches, etc). Exterior views are quite awesome when doing some specialized flying such as scenery, flying the beach, sunset, etc. I have 4 stick-on mounts all over my plane and have noticed zero difference in speed or handling of my aircraft. Do you use a sticky mount on your headliner? Have you taken it off and seen any discolor on the headliner? I want to mount one on mine but worry it will stain the leather. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 hours ago, xcrmckenna said: Do you use a sticky mount on your headliner? Have you taken it off and seen any discolor on the headliner? I want to mount one on mine but worry it will stain the leather. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I would NOT recommend the sticky mount on leather. You could of course test it somewhere to see if it will leave residue behind. I took the plate that every gopro is attached to in the original box and mounted that to the ceiling with a couple of screws. I used existing trim screws so no extra holes anywhere. It works very well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcrmckenna Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 I would NOT recommend the sticky mount on leather. You could of course test it somewhere to see if it will leave residue behind. I took the plate that every gopro is attached to in the original box and mounted that to the ceiling with a couple of screws. I used existing trim screws so no extra holes anywhere. It works very well. Cool, I have two screws up on the headliner but they are offset from center. But if they are solid then I will put in a little longer screw and put it threw the mount. I do like that idea far better than the sticky mount. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 I can send you a picture of mine when I'm back home next week. 29 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said: Cool, I have two screws up on the headliner but they are offset from center. But if they are solid then I will put in a little longer screw and put it threw the mount. I do like that idea far better than the sticky mount. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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