Considering a Mooney...

[FastTex]

Hello,

I have been flying a PA28-140 for several years with great enjoyment! Now I'm considering to upgrade to a Mooney (mission: XC with family so more speed and more load...). Based on my budget it looks like a M20F (mid 70s) might be the right fit. What are the thinks to consider, items to check, ADs to make sure got done, etc?

Any recommendation is very much appreciated!

Thanks,

Edited January 7, 2018 by FastTex

[Bob_Belville]

FT,

There are quite a few similar threads available to you via the search function. I think you will find that there are not that many M20Fs on the market at any given time and that since the newest ones are over 40 years old many of those that are for sale will have issues. I don't think ADs are much of a problem but a proper PPI by a Mooney savvy mechanic should include determine by inspection and a careful study of the log book if airframe corrosion is present and the status of the fuel tanks. Other factors are just money issues and are mostly common to any brand: engine time, panel, paint/interior... In general, it is better to find a plane that has been well maintained and updated with the numerous mods that made the J out of the F. An F model that has had no updates from the mid 70s would be worth very little to someone whose mission is cross country flying. Even if the engine has years left before overhaul, a complete panel update can run $50k and P&I another $20k. 

Happy hunting.

[rainman]

I second what Bob has said. As your screen name implies you are in Texas, consider All American Aircraft for advice on purchase, and consider what they may have. Dave and Jimmy are experts on finding and evaluating use Mooneys.  In Texas you have Don Maxwell in Longview, and  Dugosh in Kerrville, for inspections.  I'm at 5C1 near San Antonio, PM me if I can be of any help. Ray

[Browncbr1]

IMHO, the F is the best budget CC machine if you have a family of 4 and will keep the back seats full most trips.   I went for the 67 model for the reliable Johnson bar manual gear.   I believed there are few Fs on the market because owners keep them due to the generally better useful load and nearly as good speed as a J which may cost double an F.     A typical oem J is generally 10kts faster than an oem F, but has 100lbs or more less useful load.  Some F owners with cowl and windscreen mods see speeds similar to Js.    If you won’t have the back seat fill with people most of the time, I’d go for an E model, which is a little faster..

For ADs, the oem  prop hub requires an inspection, but if it has the B hub or top prop or other, then no issue.  All the other ADs are simple check this, check that.  Mainly just check everything for corrosion.   You’ll want to do some of the SBs though, namely rear spar inspection and shoulder harnesses.  

I spent $42k and got a clean oem 67F with ~400smoh and 162snew top prop and clean, hangar kept paint.   It looked like the attached.   After spending some time, sweat, and about $20k, It has a brand new custom interior and nice glass panel.  Still a few things to do, but very capable 144-147ktas @ gross on 8.5gph (1044.7 useful load).    A J that is timed and equipped like this will probably be over $100k.   

Good luck!  Go mooney!

 

[gsxrpilot]

There is a wealth of Mooney knowledge and examples to see, all in Texas. If you'll let us know what part of Texas you're in, or fill out your profile a bit, we can probably help you a bit better.

[FastTex]

First of all thanks for all the fast replies and willingness to help.

Actually, I'm in SC and not in TX. Texas/Colorado/Arizona are the areas where I would like to XC with the Mooney!

 

[Yetti]

at the top right is a search box.    Put prebuy in there and hit enter.

this is pretty good thread

 

[Marauder]

I’m a long time “mid-70s” F owner. The late model Fs are a great selection. They kept refining the F and I believe the last of the Fs saw fewer ADs and for the 75 and 76 models, they served as the basis for the first Js.

Why they are difficult to find is because, as mentioned above, they are a great platform to modify and offer speed/comfort in the same category as the early Js.

Good luck on the search.

Here is a picture of my modified F’s panel. They are out there, just make take some time.




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[Yetti]

what are the switches across the top?  why are they not placarded?   what is the plan for all the warning light?  Noticing the glareshield is missing.

[carusoam]

Yetti,

You must understand the panel pic procedure....

There are the before, the after, and the somewhere in between pics....

Marauder Panel Pics come quickly and often!

I would bet there are some fancy screen printed, more finished, pics coming...

With a nice piece of TX leather on the top...   

PP surmising only...

Best regards,

-a-

[MIm20c]

14 minutes ago, Yetti said:

what are the switches across the top?  why are they not placarded?   what is the plan for all the warning light?  Noticing the glareshield is missing.

With panel pictures you need to rotate the stock to keep things fresh and exciting.  I tried to find the complete picture until I was distracted by all the wonderful panels the search function brought up. 

[Yetti]

Now that @Marauder got his interior done, I can't give him a hard time about that, so I have to find something...

[Marauder]

what are the switches across the top?  why are they not placarded?   what is the plan for all the warning light?  Noticing the glareshield is missing.

Yeah, it’s an in between photo. I’m still looking for a better looking set of labels for them. They are labeled. They make up the autopilot switches, cross-over switches for the Aspens, AoA and a couple others.



The glareshield was missing in the earlier photo. The annunciator are still there.




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[FastTex]

I have seen a few M20Fs and several have had a gear up landing all saying "perfectly repaired" with top engine and propeller overhaul. How much of a concern is this, in the overall consideration schema, for someone like me that wants to buy one?

Thanks,

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, FastTex said:

I have seen a few M20Fs and several have had a gear up landing all saying "perfectly repaired" with top engine and propeller overhaul. How much of a concern is this, in the overall consideration schema, for someone like me that wants to buy one?

Thanks,

No concern at all. As long as the repair is properly documented, the planes flown many hours since, and as long as it will pass a proper pre-buy from a Mooney specialist, you'll be fine.  You'd be hard pressed to find a short or mid-body Mooney that hasn't been gear up'd at least once.

I've had two Mooneys and each of them has been gear up'd THREE times.

[FastTex]

Great, thanks. Do you know of any specialist/Mooney experts in SC?

[Bob_Belville]

What part of SC are you in? 

@AGL Aviation is in NC (KMRN). Quite a few Mooney owners come up from SC for their annuals or a PPI. I think they're still the only MSC in the Carolinas. And there's Cole Aviation in Dalton GA, a long time MSC with a good reputation as well. 

https://www.aglaviation.com/

http://www.coleaviation.com/

[wburger1]

I upgraded from a PA 28-140 N4543T  25 years ago to a  M20C and have never been happier.  I flew the M20C 10 hours with a Mooney instructor at that time and have never gone back.  Unfortunately after 25 years, my M20C developed corrosion in the fuel tanks and is out of service.  So I am also looking to buy a F model.

[steingar]

Me too.  Traded my very nice Cherokee 140 for a Mooney M20c (along with a wad of cash).  Couldn't be happier. I like flying fast.

What everyone else said with one addition.  All aircraft have major systems, says me engine and paint.  Both cost a bundle and have to be done from time to time.  Some aircraft have an extra expensive system, like the coverings of a rag airplane.  In Mooneys, the wet wings are a big deal.  They're all old, and the original sealant put in by the factory goes bad eventually.  If the aircraft doesn't leak it will, unless the tanks have been resealed (expensive) or gotten bladders (even more expensive).  Jus something to watch out for.  Good luck in  your search, you won't be disappointed.

[AGL Aviation]

I've put a link to a copy of the LASAR checklist we use during PPI. Perhaps it will shed some light on what we look for when the planes come to us and be of help on your search. Let us know if we could be of any help to you.

 

https://lasar.com/pre-buy-check-list/

[kris_adams]

On 1/7/2018 at 9:01 AM, Browncbr1 said:

After spending some time, sweat, and about $20k, It has a brand new custom interior and nice glass panel.

you did this panel, interior, and glass for $20k?  you must have some amazing connections!  Looks amazing!

 

[KLRDMD]

18 minutes ago, Kris_Adams said:

you did this panel, interior, and glass for $20k?  you must have some amazing connections!  Looks amazing!

$20,000 is what he is telling his wife !!  

[kris_adams]

2 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

$20,000 is what he is telling his wife !!  

Exactly!!

 

[RobertGary1]

On 1/7/2018 at 7:43 AM, Marauder said:

I’m a long time “mid-70s” F owner. The late model Fs are a great selection. They kept refining the F and I believe the last of the Fs saw fewer ADs and for the 75 and 76 models, they served as the basis for the first Js.

Why they are difficult to find is because, as mentioned above, they are a great platform to modify and offer speed/comfort in the same category as the early Js.

Good luck on the search.

Here is a picture of my modified F’s panel. They are out there, just make take some time.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I noticed you have the missile button on the throttle. I thought only early F's had that. I have one of the last 76 F's and don't have the ability to launch missiles. 

 

-Robert

 

 

[Hank]

13 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I noticed you have the missile button on the throttle. I thought only early F's had that. I have one of the last 76 F's and don't have the ability to launch missiles. 

A friend has one on his 75F. I had to ask what it really did . . . . .