Jump to content

Get the rating.


bradp

Recommended Posts

25 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I guess what I was trying to get across is the idea that until you have the IR, you can't know what you're missing. 

All in all, the IR makes flying easier, more enjoyable, so better, if you ask 

Before my IR I spent many mornings sitting in the hangar waiting for the ceiling to lift, now punch through the layer and go. Learning to fly out of an uncontrolled field, I would be a little timid flying into busy airports, when on an IFR flight plane you get walked all the way in, as @gsxrpilot says, much easier flying 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I rarely if ever get to shoot an approach in Actual IMC. But I got to do one a couple of weeks ago on a flight from Austin to Oklahoma City. I took off under CAVU but knowing that my destination was reporting LIFR. And it wasn't going to change. I ended up shooting the ILS approach right to minimums at KOKC. It was my first solo ILS to minimums and it was really good to get over that hump and know I could. I strive and aspire to have my "personal minimums" equal the minimums printed on the plate. In this case, the ATIS was 200 and 1/4 but the Tower was telling me that on 35R rather than 35L, the RVR was 5000. I acquired the approach lights which Tower had on full bright, right as the Aspen warned "Minimums", took a couple of seconds to transition from Instruments to Visual, kicked off the autopilot, and landed. Tower than asked me to give position reports at every intersection on my way to parking as they couldn't see me on the ground.

Now before I go running for cover with my flame suit on... I had plenty of options. I had enough fuel to shoot several approaches and then still turn around and fly all the way back to Austin where it was severe clear all day. Locally the conditions were perfect for this attempt. First the layer was only about 2000 feet thick and it was clear above. Winds were calm, it was about 50 degrees so no chance of ice. It was the big airport, long/wide runway, and an ILS. Also being in Oklahoma it's flat in every direction, and everything sticking up higher than a shrub is marked on the sectional. ATC was not busy, and were happy to give me updated RVR, PIREP's, etc. I also have a great panel, with good redundancy, and SV up on two screens which allowed me to see the runway and obstructions all the way down.

After all the practice, IPC's, building a good panel, learning to use all the avionics I have, etc... I was pretty excited about the result.  And that's one... after 10 years with an IR.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Ftlausa said:

Plus 1 for doing IPCs partial panel.  Good skill builder and good preparation for gyro failure in IMC.   

I took my IFR training at a school in Kansas (GATTS) where ALL of the flying is done with the attitude indicator covered.  You get comfortable using the TC for roll info and the altimeter for pitch info.  Over the years I have had failures of attitude indicators in IMC conditions, and the initial emphasis on partial panel training was a real help.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, whiskytango said:

I took my IFR training at a school in Kansas (GATTS) where ALL of the flying is done with the attitude indicator covered.  You get comfortable using the TC for roll info and the altimeter for pitch info.  Over the years I have had failures of attitude indicators in IMC conditions, and the initial emphasis on partial panel training was a real help.

That sounds like really good training, think of the number of people who die when the vacuum pump quits.  An instrument rated Beech pilot made the news here on MS awhile ago.

Clarence

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, HRM said:

Good point. What every VFR  pilot needs is not an IFR rating, but the ability to control the aircraft in the soup

Exactly, and that is exactly what the Instrument rating does. While true, having the FAA rating is not the only way to have the ability to control the aircraft in the soup, it in itself and its required currency minimums are far less demanding that what it takes to stay competent to be able to control the aircraft in the soup. Think about that. To be able to legally do it, you have to demonstrate to an instructor that you can, he has to certify that you have the knowledge and ability and training, and then a DE has to evaluate the instructors certification of you and your abilities.

To be able to have the ability to control the aircraft in the soup requires as much and more work than the ACS standards call for, IMO.

Yea, Im tough on instrument students, as this is serious business demanding precision of thinking, ADM, and aircraft control without the aid of external vision and references. Training is the only way you can get this, not inherited luck. Do you have to have the instrument ticket to have this ability? No, but if you have the ability, why not just get the rating then?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I make a reasonably good living but I also have two daughters who have always gone to expensive summer camp and are getting ready to go to college.  Oh, and an "exciting" wife (as Mimi says) who likes nice things and traveling to far away places.  Oh, and then there are the clothes ... and the shoes ... for all three of them.  :(

So it has just never been in the cards for me to invest that much more money into my flying, which is essentially only a tremendously expensive indulgence already.

Three women in the house and you still worked how to own and fly a Mooney?!!! You win, I'm out!

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't disagree with the equipment argument.  My aircraft is getting an antique IFR GPS, and its still costing me a bundle.  All I've got is a one axis autopilot and almost no redundancy.  but I'll still go for the damn rating.  Flying to train for a rating is still flying, and the tricks one learns can be quickly and easily life-saving.  Yeah, I'd like the perfect bird to do everything, but folks were flying IMC with nothing but VORs long before I started.  Hell,  my aircraft probably had an awesome panel when that stuff was first put in there.  If they could do it so can I.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, nosky2high said:

In addition to the IR and staying very current, I strongly recommend you replace your aircraft battery every three years and your vacuum pump and alternator (overhaul) every five hundred hours as well. Don't forget to overhaul those gyro instruments if applicable. 

Next up for our vintage Mooney, the Garmin G5 Attitude indicator. The additional safety of this instrument with four hour battery backup is a huge risk mitigator, IMO.

 

Vacuum system gone. Two alternators. New battery. G5 and everything else in the panel has it's own battery backup. A 1987 airplane with a 2017 panel. :D

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I flew down to San Diego (Ramona) last Friday to celebrate my birthday with family, and came back on Saturday.  The weather was some of the best ever with a temperature of 80° in Ramona.  I didn't file either direction.  No problem on the way down, but a real problem on the way back.  

I like flight following, especially in the LA Basin.  Ramona is a Contract Tower and you just can't get flight following out of there, although I've tried numerous times.  You need to contact SoCal after you get out of Ramona airspace.  I knew the frequency, but the Controller just wouldn't answer me, even though I knew I was transmitting and there were large open spaces in the frequency.  He was just plain nasty (I could tell it by his voice) and showed no courtesy even to tell me he was too busy to handle VFR traffic, although he wasn't.  Looking at the nearest ATC frequencies on the 796 I tried other frequencies.  The next one said I was on a high altitude frequency and said to call someone else (so much for the 796 frequency recommendations), but gave no help as to what frequency to call.  As I flew past John Wayne, I called SoCal on a frequency on one of the approach charts.  Finally, they answered and they gave me another frequency to call.  I tried to get in on that frequency for 10 minutes before a Controller answered me, and had me call another frequency.  Again, it was hard to get someone to respond, but after flying past the LA approach corridor, someone on that frequency finally answered and gave me a code.  He couldn't find me.  I repeated where I was, and he told me he saw me outside his airspace when he scaled out his display (Mooneys are FAST).  He gave me another frequency to call.  Finally, when flying over the Rose Bowl I was in the System.

The purpose of this discussion?  When you're IFR you're a 1st Class Citizen.  ATC has to talk to you.  When VFR many times you are not.  For this reason and so many more, if you can see a way to acquiring the Instrument Rating, you will be so much better off in your flying adventures.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Glad to see we are off the ROP/LOP, AOA/No AOA, fatty/skinny woman topics.

If I were to define the difference between VFR and IFR flying, the word I would use is precision. I flew for several years as a VFR pilot, including a couple as a Mooney owner. What the IFR rating taught me was how to fly my plane precisely. It taught me how to maintain altitude and heading, I knew what power settings would give me a 500 FPM descent, it tightened up my radio skills and most importantly, it taught me to be a student of the weather.

The rating isn’t just for plane utility, it helps sharpen your skills - including the decision making one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I feel strongly that an autopilot with altitude hold is required equipment for single pilot IFR, and I would also want an approach certified GPS and probably also GPSS for the autopilot. Not to mention a multitude of redundant systems that aren't necessary for an airplane that is only flown VFR. My plane doesn't have any of this and it would all cost as much as the plane is worth to add, and then it would all just have to be maintained.  The gift that keeps on giving!  

Jim, that would certainly be nice, but many of us trained and fly IFR / IMC with much less . . .

An autopilot is great, but my Brittain works well  forme without altitude hold. Ditto for GPSS, although the heading bug is quick & easy to spin abd the airplane follows.

All you really need are 2 Nav and 2 Com radios. A GPS is nice, though.  ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I like to point out as a first indication to go for the IFR rating:

Have you ever flown MVFR and spent the entire flight perfectly safe, but always worrying about the ceiling and visibility?   Are those clouds 500' above?   Are those descenders cloud or virga?  Is that actually 3 miles?

The summer haze in the north east often produces those conditions.

I flew VFR from cape cod back to NJ along the RI/CT shore, @ 2500 (clouds@3000ish) always with an eye on the layer above, the class D space all along the route, and didn't fly IFR since the TEC route was another 30-40 miles.     Should have filed and ate the miles.

I've flown a similar route many times from NH IFR, and you just don't worry.   Oh, the clouds are a little close, doesn't matter.  the visibility went to 3 miles.. oh well.   

If you fly nothing but high minimums VFR, you probably don't need the IFR, but if you find yourself in the entire VFR spectrum, CAVU to 3mi 2000' the IFR ticket makes the bottom of that envelope better.  

I've flown all across the country VFR, yes you don't need the IFR rating, but it can be part of your backup systems.  An out when you need it and it makes flying VFR even safer.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, donkaye said:

I flew down to San Diego (Ramona) last Friday to celebrate my birthday with family, and came back on Saturday.  The weather was some of the best ever with a temperature of 80° in Ramona.  I didn't file either direction.  No problem on the way down, but a real problem on the way back.  

I like flight following, especially in the LA Basin.  Ramona is a Contract Tower and you just can't get flight following out of there, although I've tried numerous times.  You need to contact SoCal after you get out of Ramona airspace.  I knew the frequency, but the Controller just wouldn't answer me, even though I knew I was transmitting and there were large open spaces in the frequency.  He was just plain nasty (I could tell it by his voice) and showed no courtesy even to tell me he was too busy to handle VFR traffic, although he wasn't.  Looking at the nearest ATC frequencies on the 796 I tried other frequencies.  The next one said I was on a high altitude frequency and said to call someone else (so much for the 796 frequency recommendations), but gave no help as to what frequency to call.  As I flew past John Wayne, I called SoCal on a frequency on one of the approach charts.  Finally, they answered and they gave me another frequency to call.  I tried to get in on that frequency for 10 minutes before a Controller answered me, and had me call another frequency.  Again, it was hard to get someone to respond, but after flying past the LA approach corridor, someone on that frequency finally answered and gave me a code.  He couldn't find me.  I repeated where I was, and he told me he saw me outside his airspace when he scaled out his display (Mooneys are FAST).  He gave me another frequency to call.  Finally, when flying over the Rose Bowl I was in the System.

The purpose of this discussion?  When you're IFR you're a 1st Class Citizen.  ATC has to talk to you.  When VFR many times you are not.  For this reason and so many more, if you can see a way to acquiring the Instrument Rating, you will be so much better off in your flying adventures.

I flew a couple of times through Los Angeles over the holidays.  Van Nuys to Palm Springs and other destinations involving flying over LAX!!

I noticed that ATC was very short staffed.  One controller was managing 4 frequencies.  They probably were not expecting much traffic out there

and then spread themselves too thin.  I wonder if that was the root of your problem?  I too had one occasion of calling 2 or 3 times to get through.

I've only encountered very cheerful and courteous So Cal controllers and never any issues with FF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For you guys getting your panel updated my advice is get very very familiar with the new equipment before you start your Instrument training. Go up in VMC with a buddy, have him fly from the right seat while you play with your new equipment

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I first started flying I had a C150.  Every time I went over Lake Michigan ATC would drop Flight Following as soon as I was about a third of the way across.  Really?  Told my CFII about it and he simply said "they can't do that to you on an IFR Flight Plan".

The first summer I had my F model we did several cross country flights to the Denver area.  Flying my family below the overcast, getting beat up by turbulence, or popping above through a hole and worrying the rest of the flight if I could get back down were enough reason to get the rating.  Got it just over two years after my Private in the F.

I flew that F for 5 years, 1300 hours, with no A/P, no GPS in a fair amount of IMC, shot a bunch of VOR Approaches and filed airways for every flight.  A good portion of the states filled on my travel map were done in that old bird.  

You guys with the short bodies that get your ticket and fly without an A/P will be some of the best IFR Rated GA pilots on this forum!!  I flew my hangar partners E  last summer and that's a workout in IMC if you've gotten lazy using the A/P a lot and fly a medium/ long body.

Tom

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m flying out of SoCal, And even with our weather being ok most of the time, I find my instrument rating so much easier to get through our Bravo and other airspaces, even if the weather is CAVU. I’ll file IFR from my iPad an hour before, so even if I’m leaving from an uncontrolled field, atc knows where I’m going and it’s a snap getting ifr clearances in the air. And there are many days when my airport is reporting marginal VFR, which I would call imc, where rather than having to divert to some other airport, try to punch through holes in cloud layers vfr which I think is much scarier, less safe and much more stressful than just executing a approach (I put up a video here somewhere of an approach to LGB that the weather was reporting marginal VFR, and you can see it’s clearly not to get there),  wait it out or get a hotel somewhere else if the weather deteriorates not forecasted, not a problem to land where you intend to by just executing an easy ifr approach. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

.....

You guys with the short bodies that get your ticket and fly without an A/P will be some of the best IFR Rated GA pilots on this forum!!  I flew my hangar partners E  last summer and that's a workout in IMC ....

My E had no AP and no wing leveler (Super 21s had Brittain systems starting with s/n 400, mine was number 394).

You are right; hand flying the E in IMC while trying to fold charts & navigate kept me busy.  I discovered I didn’t have many spare processor cycles. 

I vividly recall one icy December flight headed to Nashville while talking to Memphis Center & repeatedly trying to figure out why the Memphis approach plate made so little sense....finally realized the approach plate book had flipped over a few dozen pages from Nashville while I was looking elsewhere. 

One AI, one vacuum pump, one generator, one good radio.   Jeez. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Exactly, and that is exactly what the Instrument rating does. While true, having the FAA rating is not the only way to have the ability to control the aircraft in the soup, it in itself and its required currency minimums are far less demanding that what it takes to stay competent to be able to control the aircraft in the soup. Think about that. To be able to legally do it, you have to demonstrate to an instructor that you can, he has to certify that you have the knowledge and ability and training, and then a DE has to evaluate the instructors certification of you and your abilities.

To be able to have the ability to control the aircraft in the soup requires as much and more work than the ACS standards call for, IMO.

Yea, Im tough on instrument students, as this is serious business demanding precision of thinking, ADM, and aircraft control without the aid of external vision and references. Training is the only way you can get this, not inherited luck. Do you have to have the instrument ticket to have this ability? No, but if you have the ability, why not just get the rating then?

I <sort of> agree with everything you said, but at the end of the day, it all speaks to mission. Frankly, I don't get enough VFR flying in to make me happy and I am talking about beautiful flying days passing me by as I toil in the gristmill. I see three reasons to get an IFR ticket and none of them include the current discussion:

  1. You use your aircraft for business, and that includes being a CFI/I.
  2. You are a 'badger', also known as a forever Boy Scout. We have the same type people in diving. They go after every cert available and wear their certs like merit badges.
  3. You are retired and have the time to get the ticket and the time to use it ;)

Just my NSHO.

Just my NSHO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't count the number of times I've been stranded VFR by wx on the fingers of both hands.  I've seen some cool places, but spent way too much down time at small airports.  Not a bad thing, but not my first aspiration either.  I expect the IR to give me some options, and I ask little more.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have either departed early or delayed takeoff many times since getting the IR, but the only time I was stranded in the past 8 years was when I had a mechanical issue. I was VFR only for the first 3 years and got stranded at the destination a few times, but we always made an adventure of it and I actually have good memories about being stranded VFR more so than bad ones. 

Still I agree @steingar it's much better to have options. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, HRM said:

I <sort of> agree with everything you said, but at the end of the day, it all speaks to mission. Frankly, I don't get enough VFR flying in to make me happy and I am talking about beautiful flying days passing me by as I toil in the gristmill. I see three reasons to get an IFR ticket and none of them include the current discussion:

  1. You use your aircraft for business, and that includes being a CFI/I.
  2. You are a 'badger', also known as a forever Boy Scout. We have the same type people in diving. They go after every cert available and wear their certs like merit badges.
  3. You are retired and have the time to get the ticket and the time to use it ;)

Just my NSHO.

Just my NSHO.

You forgot Reason #4:  I'm still working, and need to stick to some sort of schedule when traveling, so that I can be home to go to work. Instrument flying lets me come much closer to that than simple VFR does. It increases the utility of my plane.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.