Realistic TAS for Mooney Ovation

[LANCECASPER]

25 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

Jerry - is your KI256 starting to act up?  Unless your TC is the culprit, I'd say you may be ready for an inspection or O/H on that AI, given that 5-degree left bank angle indication.

That's a KI254 Electric Attitude Gyro with Flight Command Indicator. The M20L (Mooney Porsche) it is on (later converted to an IO-550) was an all electric airplane - no vacuum. (It says "D. C." on the face of the instrument and you have to pull to cage.).

 

But yes it looks a little off.

[StevenL757]

Ah...thanks.  Yet another good catch.

I'm batting .000 tonight...

[LANCECASPER]

Just now, StevenL757 said:

Ah...thanks.  Yet another good catch.

I'm batting .000 tonight...

That's my normal batting average . . lol

[jerryg324]

Lol...  yeah I thought it would last until King finally released the KI300 but not so lucky...  Just had it overhauled and reinstalled it today...  

[Jeff_S]

My LOP cruise numbers are similar to others posted: 175 KTAS on 12.5-13.5 GPH depending on altitude. I also read with amusement the supposed speeds achieved by the Ovation in the magazine article...seemed a little high to me, but that plane has neither TKS nor A/C nor built-in O2, so it’s very light. It’s possible they weren’t BSing us.

For speed, running 2600 RPM with WOT and 20 GPH at 1500’ MSL I could easily get 192 or 193 KTAS in steady flight.  I averaged about 191 knots over a 150 mile course in an air race last year. The course had five turns including one 160 degree angle, and it started and stopped at the same airport so winds mostly canceled each other out. It was a smooth day, so I spent much of the race deep into the yellow band on the ASI. These birds can go fast if you’re willing to guzzle the gas.

[carusoam]

@StevenL757

Can you comment on max FF setting for the IO550?

What setting you use or does Bob Minus recommend a particular preference.

The STC calculates out to about 27.2 or So gallons per hour.

A few people add a gallon or two for improved cooling on the climb.

My O is going into annual and I’m thinking about adding some to the 27.2...

Best regards,

-a-

[buddy]

30 gph on take-off works for me but I also pull the prop back to 2400 rpm shortly after I leave the runway and this seems to keep the CHTs a little cooler than leaving it at 2700 rpm.

[StevenL757]

5 hours ago, carusoam said:

@StevenL757

Can you comment on max FF setting for the IO550?

What setting you use or does Bob Minus recommend a particular preference.

The STC calculates out to about 27.2 or So gallons per hour.

A few people add a gallon or two for improved cooling on the climb.

My O is going into annual and I’m thinking about adding some to the 27.2...

Best regards,

-a-

Absolutely.  My IO550N is set to 27.4 as recommended by Bob, my mechanic, and CMI, and your max shouldn‘t be any more than 28.0 according to them.  You’re ok at 27.2, but going to 27.4 would help out a tad with cooling.

Steve

[DVA]

10 full knots can be attributed to TKS in the lower altitudes. Some people claim less, but I’m not convinced they compared apples to apples (Temp, altitude, humidity, weigh, cg, etc) on the A B comparison. I’ve seen two fresh installs where there was no question that 10 knots came off with tks. My Bravo flys 10 below book with TKS as well, a little less up in the high teens low twenties.

 

 

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[M016576]

13 hours ago, DVA said:

10 full knots can be attributed to TKS in the lower altitudes. Some people claim less, but I’m not convinced they compared apples to apples (Temp, altitude, humidity, weigh, cg, etc) on the A B comparison. I’ve seen two fresh installs where there was no question that 10 knots came off with tks. My Bravo flys 10 below book with TKS as well, a little less up in the high teens low twenties.

 

 

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Man.... my Missile really must have been a Rocket before they installed the TKS!  190+kts on 13gph... Seth, if you’re out there, is that what you see down low?

[aviatoreb]

5 minutes ago, M016576 said:

Man.... my Missile really must have been a Rocket before they installed the TKS!  190+kts on 13gph... Seth, if you’re out there, is that what you see down low?

Calling Seth, calling Seth....

I've been in Seth's plane with him - and I have no specific data to offer other than to describe that it is very fast, and I think it is faster at 4k or so than my rocket - with TKS - is. His Missile has no TKS.  (and no step!  That must be the difference).

[M016576]

6 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Calling Seth, calling Seth....

I've been in Seth's plane with him - and I have no specific data to offer other than to describe that it is very fast, and I think it is faster at 4k or so than my rocket - with TKS - is. His Missile has no TKS.  (and no step!  That must be the difference).

The step! Of course!  Now... where’s my hacksaw...

[Hank]

9 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Calling Seth, calling Seth....

I've been in Seth's plane with him - and I have no specific data to offer other than to describe that it is very fast, and I think it is faster at 4k or so than my rocket - with TKS - is. His Missile has no TKS.  (and no step!  That must be the difference).

@Seth Missile info needed!

[Cruiser]

A Missle or Rocket is not an Ovation

They are mid body planes with long body engines of course they are going to be faster

[M016576]

1 hour ago, Cruiser said:

A Missle or Rocket is not an Ovation

They are mid body planes with long body engines of course they are going to be faster

Hmm. So.... what’s the allure of the O or B or... dare I say it, the A?  10 inches of legroom in the back seat and less useful load?

Edited December 27, 2017 by M016576

[carusoam]

Having the IO550 installed on the plane's birth date at the factory carries a lot of value for some...

Not being familiar with the Rocket Engineering people/company makes it very difficult to believe a Missile can be as good as it is.

I was looking at a Missile but couldn't find enough information from actual users to make a decent decision.  I dragged my feat for things like compression testing of the IO550 is very different than the O360 that I was familiar with...

I found MooneySpace in its first month of existance. But couldn't find much written about the Missile then...

Becoming familiar with Rocket Engineering and Midwest Mooney and the guy who wrote the 310hp STC...

You get an eyeful of the actual science and engineering that was involved in building the Missile and Rocket and O3 powered O.

It isn't just a bolt-on and see how it flies kind of thing.

It takes a ton of grass roots marketing to get the word out.

The extra 10” here and 10” there... 150amus of pure luxury... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Tx_Aggie]

180 KTAS, 2000 Ovation DX 2 blade, 11k, WOT, 2450 RPM, 63% hp, 13.5 gph,

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[Seth]

Sorry for the delay gang:  two kids so quickly takes time away from my favorite website!!!  My two year old is now asleep and my 7 month old is just about down . . . And my wife deserves a gold medal every day.  

Onto my Mistress:  The Missile. 

I’m lucky, she is fast.  My fastest 4 way cardinal speed four way course 5000 and 8000 feet on a cool day was 191 knots burning a lot of fuel.  Before that my best four way course was 188 and before that 186.  The speed kept increasing slightly for the first few hundred hours after overhaul.  Also, keeping the leading edge bug free as noted by Bob Kromer at Mooney Summiy top and bottom from spar to spar gives 4 knots - that’s part of why I think I got an increase from 188 to 191 the last time I went up - I had just washed the plane and gotten everything off  which I admit I don’t do every time after landing.

Down low at sea level WOT and 2650 RPM we’re talking 20GPH.  You are in the yellow at that point.

At between 6000-9000 is my sweet spot.  I don’t like to go much higher without supplemental O2 which I have because asthma and feel the altitude once at 9000.  I will go up to 11,000 to 12,000 without supplemental O2 but prefer not to.  Fuel burn drops dramatically over 10,000 feet!!

I got a great tailwind coming east at 16000 feet earlier this year - my fuel burn was 8.7 I though my true airspeed was lower due to lack of power up there, my ground speed was stilll just shy of 190 knots.

I personally love seeing over 200 knot ground speeds - it happens a lot!

Real world speeds:

I can fly all day around 15-15.4 GPH 75-100 ROP at 180 knots true around 7000-8000.

If not in a hurry I back down to 12-13 GPH for around 175 true.

LOP I can be 10.5-10.9 at 170.

I don’t tend to fly LOP too often as the engine is just a touch rougher, but at times I do.  Often I’ll just pull power back ROP and be within a gallon or two per hour for the desired speed LOP.  I know LOP burns more cleanly.  However I’m being honest, don’t want to start a debate, but as noted simply power back ROP vs flying LOP more often than not.

The magic is with 200 less ponds by the mid body over the long body. I climb better than most Ovations for that reason alone.  Also, I get a 1067 lb useful load.  I have extended range tanks and runway performance is fantastic on take off.  As long as I land on speed, it’s pretty good on landing.

My wife says “Hank (airplane’s name) wants to to fly.”  She was amazed at the acceleration difference from the F to the Missile.  My F was no slouch and also had a 3 blade prop and 1018 pound useful load.  The climb off the runway in the Missile puts a smile on my pilot buddies every time they fly with me.  I am off the ground quickly, then pitch for 90 knots until 1000 AGL where I curise climb beteeen 120 and 140 knots.  I often see 1500 FPM and better during the danger zone up to 700-800 feet for the power off 180 if needed.

With my Monroy (thank you!) thanks I can go 1000 statue miles in 5 hours or 1500 miles in 10 hours (with a wide mouth Gatorade bottle).  My longest time in flight was 5.5 non stop DC to Minneapolis.  The next day it was 4.5 hours back.  I try to keep most legs to four hours or less.

Full 98 gallons (588 pounds) I still have 479 pound for the cabin.  I’m only 5’6” and wet at 155 lbs (I obviously played middle linebacker in college). And I rarely need the full 98 gallons but it’s great to tank cheap fuel into expensive places and pay the minunun needed to waive charges.  A fill up can mean a difference of $200-$300 on average should I get fuel at a smaller airport in the mid Atlantic.

The negatives:

- I came from an F model so for leisure flying, after two hours I’m in the mid 20s vs mid teens.  It adds up but I’m covering so much more ground.  I can and do slow down. But the speed even if not needed is addictive.  You want 180 knots, or even 170 instead of 148 or 140.

-Nose heavy - the full feathering prop adds safet but it makes the airplane nose heavy.  I can’t wait to fly Erik’s Rocket so I can feel the difference of the non feathering 4 blade composite prop - he said it feels more like a C model in lightness in the controls.  The Rocket and Missle otherwise are very heavy and especially nose heavy aircraft.

-Frankenplane - technically it’s not a factory install engine which both hurts the resale, mechanics who don’t know it don’t set it up right or don’t know it’s quirks, and may hurt upgrades in the future.  It did help with lower aquisirion however.

Hope this helps!!

-Seth

 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Seth said:

My wife says “Hank (airplane’s name) wants to to fly.”  

She's right--we do want to fly! Your plane and I.  

[Seth]

Let’s make that happen 

11 minutes ago, Hank said:

She's right--we do want to fly! Your plane and I.  

Hank -  let’s make it happen this year!

-Seth

[Hank]

12 minutes ago, Seth said:

Let’s make that happen 

Hank -  let’s make it happen this year!

-Seth

Let me get through annual next month . . .

[Seth]

12 minutes ago, Hank said:

Let me get through annual next month . . .

If not before than at Mooney Summit

[carusoam]

Friends don't let friends fly an IO550...  

-a-

[THill182]

On 12/27/2017 at 11:54 PM, Tx_Aggie said:

180 KTAS, 2000 Ovation DX 2 blade, 11k, WOT, 2450 RPM, 63% hp, 13.5 gph,

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First, how do you determine KTAS? While just flying around for fun or practicing I perform speed tests at regular intervals (fly N/E/S/W at specific power setting, then average speed); I have found that the KTAS measured that way is usually 3 to 5 Kts faster than using the simple "calculator" method on the air speed indicator (by selecting a specific altitude and OAT, and reading off the adjusted KTAS; I suppose that doesn't take humidity into account? Not sure).

I have done that before and after adding TKS, and before and after converting to 310 HP and 3-blade, and before and after an engine overhaul. Note that I also have air conditioning which shaves off presumably 2 kts or so

My basic results:

- Weight makes a big difference; fly light and add 3 kts easily; fly at gross weight and lose 3 kts easily

- The standard 2000 O2 with the two-blade would make pretty much book numbers -- so I could get to near / at 190 Kts at wide open and ROP, and at/around 8,000 ft

- TKS shaved off 8-10 Kts -- no question about that

- 310 conversion and 3-blade changed-my-world on take-off (in particular from high-density airports) and climb. Now I get at wide-open and ROP and at/around 8,000 ft about 192 KTas at mid-weight; but that is burning tons of fuel and I don't fly that way other than to test speeds...

- Finally, real-world x-country speed with a new motor, flying wide-open and LOP 13.1 Gph at/above 10,000 ft at 2550 RPM: 170-175 KTAS. I might be able to go maybe 3-5 Kts faster but the hottest cylinder (#3 CHT) prevents me from doing that except on very cold days (I keep temps below 370F CHT).

 

Anyway, that's the summary after 15 years of ownership and flying.... (and trying to "speed-her-up" with careful rigging etc.).

[jetdriven]

the 4 heading method is somewhat accurate but as winds aloft increase it loses accuracy. The national test pilot school has a spreadsheet where it takes the root mean square of three different ground tracks and it’s accurate to one knot. Try that.