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Looking to Buy an Eagle or Early Ovation?


Mike@Loves

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2 hours ago, Cruiser said:

the one in my thread he already found. I currently have found an eagle. Looking through the logs as of right now and everything looks good. as of these 2, there are no othre eagles to be found.

there are 3 nice early ovations on controller. one for as low as 140.

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Mike, welcome.  We could do with a little bit about your mission, flying history/past aircraft flown, and what your budget looks like.  Although there aren't a lot of Ovations or Eagles on the market today, there are a few I could point you toward depending on the above.

Steve

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Hi Steve,

As a non-US citizen I can only spend 6 months out of 12 in the US so I split my time between Florida (97FL), St. Vincent (TVSA) southern Caribbean - my primary residence and 2 - 4 weeks a year in Europe -  UK/Germany. For 4 years I flew a Wing Derringer back and forward to the "Islands". I sold it earlier this year and bought a M20J in which I have done 2 trips. Although it is a great aircraft, for that trip it is really at the limit for range and speed. We did fly back once in a day but it was a long day! We usually overnight in Puerto Plata, DR in both directions. 3 trips in a year are approximately 65 hours. The remainder of our flying is usually around Florida. The M20J is set to go to a new home in January.

I was RAF trained - C130s. A UK airline -  Vickers Viscounts. Cathay Pacific - L1011, B747-200/300/400. Retired early to go "Blue Water" sailing, ended up flying Islander, AC50, C402 in the Caribbean. Sailed up to US. Got a job flying Learjet 25/35/55/60 in Florida. 2005 US immigration would not renew my visa.Sailed back to the Caribbean to set up a jet operation C550/CJ3. Retired 2010. Bought house at Love's Landing (97FL) to keep flying. My wife said that I was driving her crazy because I couldn't get in an aircraft! 

For the past 4 - 6 months I have been looking at various Mooney types, turbo and NA. 231, 252, Missile, Rocket, Eagle/Screaming Eagle, Ovation. They are all suitable, it's just that some are more suitable than others! The flight down to St. Vincent is an interesting planning situation. By being able to select a cruise altitude  between say 8K and 18K it is usually possible to find a tailwind, or at least reduce the headwind significantly. Refuelling in the Bahamas or Turks and Caicos is expensive. If possible a non stop from Florida to Puerto Rico, not a great stopover at this time, to refuel and then on to St Croix. Or non stop Florida - St. Croix, 1024nm. The advantage of these 2 stops is, US soil to US soil. No eApis etc. until clearing out at TISX. Carrying max fuel out of TISX reduces the fuel uplift in TVSA to a minimum or zero. 100LL is $9.00/gal in TVSA!!! There are several other considerations, but I think you get the idea.

The budget is $160K but I suppose that could be pushed out a little.

I seem to have gone on a bit but reducing it any further would have given full picture.

Mike

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Given the choice between the Ovation and the Eagle I'd choose the Ovation every time. The Ovation came with more standard features, including a fully coupled autopilot (the Eagle came with an STEC 30), usually leather interior, better equipped panel, two or three color paint scheme, etc. The standard IO-550 on the Eagle was only rated at 244hp before any STC mods. The Ovation came standard at 280hp. Both can be upgraded to as much as 310hp, but it's usually going to be more expensive on the Eagle since some Ovations already came with the Top Prop needed for the upgrade. Standard fuel on an Eagle was 75 gallons, on an Ovation 89 gallons. No electric rudder trim. Speed brakes were optional on the Eagle. The yokes were painted rather than leather covered. The first year Eagles came standard with one Nav Com and a King GPS.

Trying to bring an Eagle up to an Ovation will be more expensive than just buying an Ovation, all things being equal. A huge consideration is the Moritz gauges that were on all Eagles and Ovations starting in mid '99. The gauges start failing one at a time and the only real solution is to cut a new panel and put in a JPI-900 or JPI930 or MVP-50. If someone has done that already on an airplane for sale, so much the better. If not, it's eventually going to need it. When you start cutting a new panel that's when you start thinking about doing some other things at the same time and $40,000 goes very fast on that type of project. Usually the least expensive way to do it in the long run is just to pay a fair price for the best example out there and fly it.

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22 hours ago, Mike@Loves said:

I am seriously in the market for an Eagle/Screaming Eagle or an early Ovation or possibly a Rocket. If you have, or know of one that may be available you can PM me directly. I have looked at all the aircraft that are currently listed.

Just a nosy question. Have you eliminated the M20M Bravo? Many of the Bravo owners on MS refer to them as their "private airliner", and I would think you could find a plane in your price range with the equipment you say you would like.

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32 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

Just a nosy question. Have you eliminated the M20M Bravo? Many of the Bravo owners on MS refer to them as their "private airliner", and I would think you could find a plane in your price range with the equipment you say you would like.

Great point! The M20M is the poor man's Acclaim. The Lycoming doesn't have the starter adapter issues you have with the Continental and with proper baffling and conservative (1600 TIT and less than 400 CHT) engine management you get good life out of the cylinders. Most flown this way make it to TBO without a top end overhaul. Almost without exception the continentals, turbo or not, need a top end half way to TBO. The cost of MOH is expensive but not as much if you factor in no half time top end overhaul.  You might say that you don't need a turbo, but the climb performance is great and nice to get over buildups in the summer. M20M's tend to be very well equipped for the purchase price of an Eagle.

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22 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Great point! The M20M is the poor man's Acclaim. The Lycoming doesn't have the s are used to think that you did not need a turbo living here on the East Coast, but now that I have the bravo, as I have said before, you may not need it but it sure is heck is nice! tarter adapter issues you have with the Continental and with proper baffling and conservative (1600 TIT and less than 400 CHT) engine management you get good life out of the cylinders. Most flown this way make it to TBO without a top end overhaul. Almost without exception the continentals, turbo or not, need a top end half way to TBO. The cost of MOH is expensive but not as much if you factor in no half time top end overhaul.  You might say that you don't need a turbo, but the climb performance is great and nice to get over buildups in the summer. M20M's tend to be very well equipped for the purchase price of an Eagle.

 Even living here on the East Coast, once you get used to turbo capability it is hard going back! 

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M20M - from what I have read the aircraft seems to burn significantly more fuel than the Ovation. Anyone have "real world" figures? I will definitely revisit the aircraft.

Is it operated like a 252 i.e. set take off power (check Ts & Ps etc) TOC set MAP and RPM? 

Can you fly LOP? I know it is a "go fast" aircraft but sometimes range is more important. I believe in Mike Busch's techniques. They seem to work well for him. (I know he is flying different engines)

Anyone near me (97FL) 10 north of Leesburg, FL that will give me a short test flight in January? I would of course fly to your "base".

Incidentally when I was speaking to "LJ" at Zephyr Engines he stated that any Continental 550 fitted with a Skytec starter would have problems. Something to do with torque applied at right angles?

I will visit the Bravo section of this website.

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Some Bravos can run LOP and some can't. It's been a mystery why they cannot reliably do it.

 

I'd look hard at a Rocket or Missile with Monroy LR tanks...both can run LOP and give you the range you need. A 252 would probably work well too. That gives you a lot to choose from beyond the R/S. With your budget I'd guess that buying a Rocket or Missile might get you "more" for the dollar as the modified planes trade at a discount compared to the factory equivalent versions.

 

The advice to buy the best example of whatever you choose still trumps differences between models, though, as many should work for you.

 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

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The Bravo's aren't going to be fuel efficient for that much overwater flight.   I can go 830NM just a bit lean of peak and still have the 1 hour reserve with the 102G tanks.    My airframe couldn't have the Monroy tanks since it has AC and TKS.    

There are some lower power settings on the Bravo chart that might get you to 1000nm.. but I have never investigated them since they add over an hour to the trip, so for my travel I put in a fuel stop unless I'm right at the 830 sort of range with VFR @ destination.

The Acclaim manual has max ISA legs of 1250nm.. the Continental has better fuel specifics, I get a feeling from the charts that it will go about 100 nm further than the Bravo at similar best economy power settings.  (it burns more GPH but makes up for that in power/speed/travel time)

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9 hours ago, PaulM said:

There are some lower power settings on the Bravo chart that might get you to 1000nm.. but I have never investigated them since they add over an hour to the trip, so for my travel I put in a fuel stop unless I'm right at the 830 sort of range with VFR @ destination.

I like to fly nonstop whenever possible. I do have the Monroy Long Range Tanks. But having the lower power settings makes the airplane very flexible.

The chart below was when the M20M was first introduced. Wisdom has shown that 1650 is max TIT for any kind of engine or exhaust system longevity, so you're fuel flow will be a little higher to accomplish that and sub 400 degree CHTs. I've owned three different M20M's and a big reason for high CHT's is the poor baffling that came installed from the factory. The best $500 you'll spend is on GEE BEE baffle seals.

My most common power setting is 29"/2400 RPM with 1600 TIT at about 17.5 GPH. I get a good combination of nice speeds and cool temps.

M20M Power Settings.pdf

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5 hours ago, cbarry said:

An Eagle 2 is not a bad option—if one was on the market.

There were fifty eight Eagles made and only nine Eagles 2's - so after accounting for yours that leaves eight. It is very rare to find one. But yes the Eagle 2 put back some of the things that the Ovation had - leather interior, electric rudder trim, Ground Power Plug, 100 lb. Gross Weight increase and a single Garmin 430W. The Eagle 2 was brought on just before Mooney went into bankruptcy in 2001 and it took them three years to sell the nine Eagle 2's that they made. Not many airplanes were selling after 9/11. As they emerged from bankruptcy they lowered the prices of airplanes considerably. The new pricing put the Eagle 2 at $50,000 less than an Ovation 2. For the difference most people felt was well worth it to get an Ovation 2 so the model was phased out.

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http://buyaircrafts.com/2017/07/28/1999-mooney-m20s-eagle2-for-sale/

I was looking at this previously. This was the only screaming  eagle on the market. I took my eyes off this as the engone time was low and it didnt seem to be flown alot as it had 500 hours since ttsn. It does have the stc for 280hp, but the avionics are pretty old and basic, so i thought it was a tad bit overpriced.

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2 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

http://buyaircrafts.com/2017/07/28/1999-mooney-m20s-eagle2-for-sale/

I was looking at this previously. This was the only screaming  eagle on the market. I took my eyes off this as the engone time was low and it didnt seem to be flown alot as it had 500 hours since ttsn. It does have the stc for 280hp, but the avionics are pretty old and basic, so i thought it was a tad bit overpriced.

Looking at the specs on that one - it was loaded compared to most Eagles. It had Speed Brakes, 2nd Nav Com, KLN94 instead of the KLN89, leather seats, 3 blade prop, 280 hp.

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Just now, LANCECASPER said:

Looking at the specs on that one - it was loaded compared to most Eagles. It had Speed Brakes, 2nd Nav Com, KLN94 instead of the KLN89, leather seats, 3 blade prop, 280 hp.

This is true. But i talked to the mech, and he told me the engine could need a top overhaulin as low aa 200hous

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28 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

http://buyaircrafts.com/2017/07/28/1999-mooney-m20s-eagle2-for-sale/

I was looking at this previously. This was the only screaming  eagle on the market. I took my eyes off this as the engone time was low and it didnt seem to be flown alot as it had 500 hours since ttsn. It does have the stc for 280hp, but the avionics are pretty old and basic, so i thought it was a tad bit overpriced.

Really?

How much do you think it was worth? Curious.........?

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10 minutes ago, Cruiser said:

Really?

How much do you think it was worth? Curious.........?

I was thinking about 140k. Theres a nice 97 ovation granted with a higher time engine, but with 310hp, a nice panel, and air conditioning, and i think its a better for my mission for the same as the eagle.

-Nik-

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