Logbooks and Insurance

[xcrmckenna]

I asked my insurance agent today if my house burned down with my airplane logbooks in there would they pay out for the loss of value to my plane. I keep my logbooks in a safety deposit box at a bank but after I do logged maintenance they will be at my house for a day or two. I was wondering if anyone has filed an insurance claim like this?

 

I also posed the question if my Flight logbook was lost in a fire would they pay to have it reconstructed. I keep my log book in my flight bag at my house 90% of the time.

 

She told me she’ll have to ask corporate because she has never had this issue. I’ll update when she gets back to me. If my insurance company won’t pay for anything, it would be well worth it to me to find an insurance company that has shown they will.

 

Thanks

Charles

 

 

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[gsxrpilot]

I would't think that you could insure against any and every conceivable loss.

But in this case I think it would be easier to just digitize the logs and then keep a copy in the cloud somewhere.

[kortopates]

What they cover is pretty well spelled out so I would review the policy with that in mind. But doubt you’ll find anything to address lost airplane logs and for sure your pilot log book is not covered.


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[xcrmckenna]

I scan everything, the airplane logs and my logbook. I even have pictures of the planes logs when I was in the process of buying the plane. Reconstruction wouldn’t be hard. But without the originals I still think there would be a decree in value of the plane? Or am I wrong? And if that is true and the logs were lost in an insured situation I thought there could be a claim. If not, I wouldn’t be surprised with an insurance company.


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[Skates97]

Those are some good questions. I was thinking about this a month or so ago when we had a big fire near our home. The only reason we weren't evacuated was because of the direction the wind was blowing.

The houses that burned down a couple miles from our home had nothing left, even those that had fire safes found that the safes were melted to puddles of metal.

A week ago when we had high wind and fire warnings I got things together and left my phone on during the night to receive alerts from the city in case of evacuations. With what happened in Northern California and people evacuating in the middle of the night I didn't want to get caught. Among the things I had ready to go were the log books and my flight logs (although I do have those saved in the cloud). As it turned out the huge Thomas fire that is burning through Ventura County and is currently at 242,000+ acres with 972 structures destroyed could have easily been us.

It got me thinking that perhaps I could just keep them locked up in the hangar. If the hangar burns and the plane is destroyed then the log books can go with it. The insurance company should still pay the claim.

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, xcrmckenna said:

I scan everything, the airplane logs and my logbook. I even have pictures of the planes logs when I was in the process of buying the plane. Reconstruction wouldn’t be hard. But without the originals I still think there would be a decree in value of the plane? Or am I wrong? And if that is true and the logs were lost in an insured situation I thought there could be a claim. If not, I wouldn’t be surprised with an insurance company.

Complete logs are complete logs if you ask me. I wouldn't expect it to affect the value of the plane.

It would certainly help if the digital copies are properly organized and in an easy to read format and not just a random collection of pictures of log book pages.

[MIm20c]

The logs don’t provide any value. The information they contain which you have backed up is the valuable commodity.  The aviation insurance companies that I’ve heard about are already very generous in payouts. We don’t need individuals making up perceived losses to continue to drive up premiums. 

[xcrmckenna]

What if a person doesn’t back them up and they are lost in a house fire. And FYI I meant my home owners insurance.


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[MIm20c]

Just now, xcrmckenna said:

What if a person doesn’t back them up and they are lost in a house fire. And FYI I meant my home owners insurance.


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Thanks for the clarification.  I think most insurance companies have caps on things like cash etc that are lost in a fire.  I think they would probably say you should have put coverage on the logs.  However, you raise a great point especially since I have not properly scanned all my logs. I think I’m going to take the advice above and make an easy to read quality backup. 

[DonMuncy]

I personally think that a hard copy kept in a different location has such a high probability of safety, I don't worry. I have a memo to myself to update my copies twice a year. (It helps when you have unlimited time to do stuff like this.) The odds of some disaster happening at both my home office and my hangar are virtually nil.

[xcrmckenna]

Complete logs are complete logs if you ask me. I wouldn't expect it to affect the value of the plane.
It would certainly help if the digital copies are properly organized and in an easy to read format and not just a random collection of pictures of log book pages.

I agree to a point that digital are as good as original. I think if I had two planes sitting next to each other and one with original logs and the other had the original logs destroyed but a digital backup was available I would take the one with original logs. And I think that lowers the value of the digital logs. But what if all copies of the logs were lost in a fire. Digital copies were made but left in the house, the original logs were at the house to be updated and the house and everything burned to the ground. Now your plane is worth “let’s say” 20% less. When you file you home owners claim could you add that to your claim?

Insurance companies spend all day putting value to our personal things and there are planes out there with and without damaged logs with asking prices. So there is a reasonable value. Does the insurance pay the claim?

I’m sure the general answer is going to be no. But I still wanted to ask my home owners insurance company Incase the worst day happens:)


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[gsxrpilot]

6 hours ago, xcrmckenna said:

I agree to a point that digital are as good as original. I think if I had two planes sitting next to each other and one with original logs and the other had the original logs destroyed but a digital backup was available I would take the one with original logs. And I think that lowers the value of the digital logs. But what if all copies of the logs were lost in a fire. Digital copies were made but left in the house, the original logs were at the house to be updated and the house and everything burned to the ground. Now your plane is worth “let’s say” 20% less. When you file you home owners claim could you add that to your claim?

Insurance companies spend all day putting value to our personal things and there are planes out there with and without damaged logs with asking prices. So there is a reasonable value. Does the insurance pay the claim?

I’m sure the general answer is going to be no. But I still wanted to ask my home owners insurance company Incase the worst day happens:)

Two points... 

There will never be to planes that are identical in every way other than original or digital logs and I still don't believe that original paper logs would make enough of a difference in any purchasing decision. I'd bet that in the next five to ten years, we might only be keeping original paper logs for nostalgia. It will be like keeping the window sticker from an old car. The true working logs will all be digital and never stored on paper any longer.

I can't imagine a scenario where the only copy of digital logs would be at my home. There are too many easy ways to store them in the cloud not to take advantage of it. The obvious options are iCloud, GoogleDrive, Dropbox, Box, OneDrive, etc. But something as simple as emailing them to yourself at your Gmail account will put a permanent record in the cloud where you can access it from anywhere in the unfortunate event that your house is destroyed.

Just my $0.02

[Dream to fly]

I wonder if Lloyds of London would.  They insure anything.  I had to insure my toolbox once for a trip across country and they did.  The prices are not stupid crazy either.  I would think it would have to be additional coverage an aviation policy.  

[xcrmckenna]

I wonder if Lloyds of London would.  They insure anything.  I had to insure my toolbox once for a trip across country and they did.  The prices are not stupid crazy either.  I would think it would have to be additional coverage an aviation policy.  

On my home owners policy I have a few collections of things insured by themselves. Guns, and other items. I’m guessing if they will make a blanket or rider policy for them, they would insure my set of logbooks. When they get back to me I will ask them. For the coverage I have on those other items are more than what I would think my logs are worth and the added coverage is $6 a year. I have talked to a few people on Facebook that do insure their logbooks. So just waiting to see what the expense is.


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