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Trutrack Update

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2 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

When is the annual due?

Cliffy's an A&P/IA, so whenever he gets around to it, really!  ;)

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I went to the AOPA fly in yesterday and talked to TruTrack. They said the Mooney install will be ready just after the first of the year. They also said they will allow and support non-dealer installs. I forget the exact price, but I think it was $5600

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3 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I went to the AOPA fly in yesterday and talked to TruTrack. They said the Mooney install will be ready just after the first of the year. They also said they will allow and support non-dealer installs. I forget the exact price, but I think it was $5600

January/February is just the right time to come hang out in my hangar and watch me work.  Hahaha!

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5 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I went to the AOPA fly in yesterday and talked to TruTrack. They said the Mooney install will be ready just after the first of the year. They also said they will allow and support non-dealer installs. I forget the exact price, but I think it was $5600

I would highly recommend doing the install yourself if you have a friendly A&P to sign it off and guide you, it can really keep the cost down.  It is straightforward but you do need a good crimping tool ($600 at spruce or borrow one) and you need to be able to ID the pins on the GPS harness.  Other than that its just mounting the servos, the unit in the panel, Pitot / Static to the controller, running about 10 wires including a AP master switch and CWS / AP DISCO buttons. Your 1st time will probably take you 35-40 hrs, my guys in the shop have it down to 25hrs after doing a few.  I would recommend that you have an A&P closely double check your work especially when it comes to the control linkages.  TruTrak Tech is very good and will help you through any issues you encounter.  As soon as I get the install manual for the Mooney I will post it here for everyone to look at.

I am a dealer, located in Vegas and would love to earn your business for the hardware purchase or the full install and I will definitely be offering a Mooneyspace discount, I can ship anywhere as soon as it is approved. 

This autopilot is awesome by the way!  I just got done doing a test flight in a Turbo Arrow, it was very bumpy this AM in Vegas and the TruTrak performed flawlessly and flew the GPS LPV with perfect accuracy, I really can't wait to put it in the Mooney!!

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Is it Approved to couple the approach down to LPV mins? Or ILS DA?

Edited by jetdriven

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4 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Is it Approved to couple the approach down to LPV mins? Or ILS DA?

What happens in the cockpit, stays in the cockpit.

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3 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

January/February is just the right time to come hang out in my hangar and watch me work.  Hahaha!

I would be happy to help You with it.

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What? You can't disengage and hand fly the last half? I used to dump the AP in the A320 half down because i could do a better job than it could.  WOOS : -)

 

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The Garmin G500 auto pilot will and so will the S-TEC 3100, and also the 1975 Century Iii, so what gives? It sounds cheaper than other offerings but it also sounds a lot less capable as well

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And the problem is? There's a vast market for a cheaper autopilot for most of the GA fleet that will never see  200/ 1/2  You want everything including autoland?  Go. get a used Airbus 320 and try to feed it.  Come on now, the market for TruTrac is far different than full 200 & 1/2 capability  You want more? Spend more. No one is stopping you!

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46 minutes ago, cliffy said:

And the problem is? There's a vast market for a cheaper autopilot for most of the GA fleet that will never see  200/ 1/2  You want everything including autoland?  Go. get a used Airbus 320 and try to feed it.  Come on now, the market for TruTrac is far different than full 200 & 1/2 capability  You want more? Spend more. No one is stopping you!

I want more capability than my century IIB with S-Tec30 ALT altitude hold.  Actually mine will track the LOC so there’s that. I get it for a 172.  But not so much for a plane than can travel at 200 mph and fly 1500 miles in a day. 

Edited by jetdriven
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Any autopilot I'd install in my Mooney better be able to fly an approach to 200 and 1/2. 

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19 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Any autopilot I'd install in my Mooney better be able to fly an approach to 200 and 1/2. 

It comes down to affordability.  An autopilot I can afford (read:justify to the household accountant) that won’t do the one thing I almost never do, vs the autopilot that costs the same as my complete aircraft that does only one extra thing that I’ll almost never use... the math is easy for me.

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22 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Any autopilot I'd install in my Mooney better be able to fly an approach to 200 and 1/2. 

Then spend 4X the TruTrak price and get one!

Personally, I don't plan to make flights where 200 - 1/2 is forecast. But sometimes weather happens. Isn't that why we practice handflying approaches?

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5 minutes ago, Hank said:

Then spend 4X the TruTrak price and get one!

Personally, I don't plan to make flights where 200 - 1/2 is forecast. But sometimes weather happens. Isn't that why we practice handflying approaches?

Real numbers here how much more is the GFC500 than the trutrak? Laid in of course. 

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My guess  By the time you get everything you need for a clean install 15K. I'm not at home so I can't double check for. Few days yet it. Maybe jeeves can chime in 

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There are clearly a few sides to this issue and it has been debated at length in this thread and the other one I started in avionics.  Basically it comes down two three groups:

1. Those who insist on having the capability to fly an ILS down to minimums and are ok with paying $15k + installed for an autopilot.

2. Those who insist on having the capability to fly an ILS down to minimums, don't want to pay $15K + and will keep their legacy autopilots. 

3. Those who want a very good autopilot, don't mind flying the ILS by hand or using heading mode & VS mode on the TT(or just flying the GPS app), don't want to pay 15k+ for an autopilot in their $70k-120k Mooney and are upgrading from units like a Century III to TruTrak to gain a HUGE amount of functionality and less maintenance.

If you haven't guessed #3 is me and a large number of others.   I am not trying to change the minds of those who are dead set on being able to fly an ILS.  I see your point and if you have decided it is the best fit for your aircraft and piloting needs I am with you 100% however the Trutrak is way more advanced than some have described it as.  It has built in GPSS, ALT preselect, VS, envelope protection, auto level and flys a beautiful GPS approach with or without LPV and is constructed in a way that an experienced shop should be able to install the whole system in around 25hrs and a mechanically inclined owner can do it for around 40hrs of their own time under the supervision of an A&P.  We have done a few at our Vegas shop and have run into very little surprises, very happy.  I have also done a few test flights and I am very impressed with how it flys.

The GFC500 will be more than double the installed cost of the Trutrak after you purchase the GFC plus two G5's and that is not taking into account the people who will need to upgrade their GPS units, to some this option is ok for me I have a hard time plunking down that money just to fly an ILS and below 700AGL.  I would challenge anyone to find a shop that would do an GFC with two G5's for less than $15k.  The Trutrak will take GPSS outputs from just about every GPS navigator old and new plus may of the handheld units and should be around $8,000 installed assuming the prices for the kit are the same as the current kits and a shop rate of $90/hr.

 

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1 hour ago, ragedracer1977 said:

It comes down to affordability.  An autopilot I can afford (read:justify to the household accountant) that won’t do the one thing I almost never do, vs the autopilot that costs the same as my complete aircraft that does only one extra thing that I’ll almost never use... the math is easy for me.

Pretty much sums up the market for Trutrak right here.

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Any autopilot I'd install in my Mooney better be able to fly an approach to 200 and 1/2. 

Given you fly a 252 with a nice panel I agree. For those old panels, TT is the way to go. If you want an updated panel, G5/GFC gives you a price point below what a AP alone used to cost.

In the end, the upgrade costs (some will be recovered when you sell) will be dwarfed by normal long term costs (hangar, insurance, avgas, maintenance) over time.

Is this your forever plane? Do you want electronic AI/HSI? I’m thrilled to have a chance to upgrade...remember not long ago we were stepchildren (DFC 90).

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9 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Real numbers here how much more is the GFC500 than the trutrak? Laid in of course. 

Real numbers from my dealer not including pitch trim or G5’s to make it even.

$5000.00

Fuel for 12 round trips to Mooney Summit 

A flying trip to Alaska

More than 10 percent of my planes value

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13 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Given you fly a 252 with a nice panel I agree. For those old panels, TT is the way to go. If you want an updated panel, G5/GFC gives you a price point below what a AP alone used to cost.

In the end, the upgrade costs (some will be recovered when you sell) will be dwarfed by normal long term costs (hangar, insurance, avgas, maintenance) over time.

Is this your forever plane? Do you want electronic AI/HSI? I’m thrilled to have a chance to upgrade...remember not long ago we were stepchildren (DFC 90).

I shouldn't post so late at night... I certainly didn't mean to disparage the TT autopilot. There sure are plenty of Mooneys out there for which the TT would be a welcome upgrade.

I do fly a 252 that already has a KFC150... but one day it will fail and I'll be looking to replace it with something equal or hopefully better. I've already overspent on this plane and will never see the return if I sold it. But as of now, I consider it my "forever plane". And therefore if I fly it for another 15 or 20 years, I'll consider having fully recovered the investment in the avionics.

I must say, I'm very interested in the Stec 3100... if we ever make the STC list.

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20 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Real numbers here how much more is the GFC500 than the trutrak? Laid in of course. 

Is the GFC500 approved for the Mooney yet? I have been waiting 

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20 hours ago, Jeev said:

There are clearly a few sides to this issue and it has been debated at length in this thread and the other one I started in avionics.  Basically it comes down two three groups:

1. Those who insist on having the capability to fly an ILS down to minimums and are ok with paying $15k + installed for an autopilot.

2. Those who insist on having the capability to fly an ILS down to minimums, don't want to pay $15K + and will keep their legacy autopilots. 

3. Those who want a very good autopilot, don't mind flying the ILS by hand or using heading mode & VS mode on the TT(or just flying the GPS app), don't want to pay 15k+ for an autopilot in their $70k-120k Mooney and are upgrading from units like a Century III to TruTrak to gain a HUGE amount of functionality and less maintenance.

If you haven't guessed #3 is me and a large number of others.   I am not trying to change the minds of those who are dead set on being able to fly an ILS.  I see your point and if you have decided it is the best fit for your aircraft and piloting needs I am with you 100% however the Trutrak is way more advanced than some have described it as.  It has built in GPSS, ALT preselect, VS, envelope protection, auto level and flys a beautiful GPS approach with or without LPV and is constructed in a way that an experienced shop should be able to install the whole system in around 25hrs and a mechanically inclined owner can do it for around 40hrs of their own time under the supervision of an A&P.  We have done a few at our Vegas shop and have run into very little surprises, very happy.  I have also done a few test flights and I am very impressed with how it flys.

The GFC500 will be more than double the installed cost of the Trutrak after you purchase the GFC plus two G5's and that is not taking into account the people who will need to upgrade their GPS units, to some this option is ok for me I have a hard time plunking down that money just to fly an ILS and below 700AGL.  I would challenge anyone to find a shop that would do an GFC with two G5's for less than $15k.  The Trutrak will take GPSS outputs from just about every GPS navigator old and new plus may of the handheld units and should be around $8,000 installed assuming the prices for the kit are the same as the current kits and a shop rate of $90/hr.

 

I am in Group 3.  The Century 21 in my K went Tango Uniform about a year ago and the factory says it cannot be repaired due to components that are no longer available.  I have been hand flying for the past 11 months, and I would love to have the ability to deal with the (apparently mandatory) re-routes I get from ATC with an autopilot to keep me pointed in the right direction.  Approaches would also be easier.  I am quite sure that the GFC500 won't play nicely with my CNX80, and I don't know if the Stec 3100 will.  Why should I have to ditch a great WAAS GPS navigator that I am perfectly happy with to get a new autopilot?  The Trutrak will meet all of my needs. 

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On 9/16/2018 at 10:41 PM, cliffy said:

 

 

1 hour ago, whiskytango said:

I am in Group 3.  The Century 21 in my K went Tango Uniform about a year ago and the factory says it cannot be repaired due to components that are no longer available.  I have been hand flying for the past 11 months, and I would love to have the ability to deal with the (apparently mandatory) re-routes I get from ATC with an autopilot to keep me pointed in the right direction.  Approaches would also be easier.  I am quite sure that the GFC500 won't play nicely with my CNX80, and I don't know if the Stec 3100 will.  Why should I have to ditch a great WAAS GPS navigator that I am perfectly happy with to get a new autopilot?  The Trutrak will meet all of my needs. 

Why won’t the GFC500 play with the CNX80? It’s all ARINC429. 

Edited by jetdriven

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