NJMac Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 I recently took a look at the Aircraft Manual Supplement for both the TruTrak and Trio. Here is a quote from the Trio: "1. Minimum Engagement Altitude a. 500 feet AGL. b. In flight autopilot operation is prohibited below an altitude of 500 feet AGL on certificated aircraft where the autopilot has been installed via STC XXXXXXX. 2. Maximum Operating Altitude is 20,000 feet MSL. 3. This autopilot has not been evaluated to meet certification requirements for coupled instrument procedures, including coupled approaches. Therefore coupled instrument approaches and procedures are not authorized without further approval." And here it is from the TruTrak: "3.6. Altitude Limitations The Vizion autopilot system has an altitude engage / disengage height limit. This limit shall be used for all modes of flight. • The minimum autopilot operating altitude is 700 feet AGL. 3.7. Interface Limitations This autopilot may only be interfaced with GPS equipment listed on TruTrak document number 186. 3.8. Other Limitations This autopilot has not been evaluated to meet certification requirements for coupled instrument procedures, including coupled approaches. Therefore coupled instrument approaches and procedures are not authorized without further approval." So neither one of them is approved for coupled approaches. I'm not sure what is required to get "further approval", but even then, it won't get you to minimums. That's not to say that if I tested it while VMC, that I would hesitate to use it in an emergency such as a failure of my attitude indicator, but with those limitations they are essentially only usable during the enroute portion of a flight. Guess I'm back to waiting to see what Dynon and Garmin offer. Unless TruTrak or Trio get "further approval". Whats to say someone wont use it for an approach though? Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 Like I said- lots of us want a good VFR autopilot with some IFR capability. This fills my requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 BTW, you might also look at some of the Brittian autopilot manuals that say the same thing about approaches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 3 hours ago, NJMac said: Whats to say someone wont use it for an approach though? Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Not saying it isn't capable. Not saying it won't be done anyway. Not saying I wouldn't do it in an emergency. However, as many fellow pilots have said, "If you do that, and something happens, what are you going to tell the NTSB when you are sitting at the long green table?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJMac Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think this is going to be my next AP if something happens to my stec. TruTrak is working with Aspen and I’m guessing the heading/ILS shortcomings will be fixed with the combo. All for the price of one or two repairs on a BK system. All roads keep leading me back to Aspen. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJMac Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 I messaged them thru FB this morning. Sounds like this year we will be installing one. Pretty exciting. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 I messaged them thru FB this morning. Sounds like this year we will be installing one. Pretty exciting. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk When I spoke to them to them at Sun N Fun they said it would be sometime over the summer for the Mooneys. They also said it will not include IAS climbs but will be “available in a couple of years”. So if you are holding out for a digital AP, with IAS climb capability, the immediate offering won’t have that. The same goes for integration with any glass you have. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabremech Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 I’m looking forward to having my TruTrak AP installed and am more than happy with altitude hold, heading and gpss. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeev Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 Update - I spoke with TruTrak on Friday and was told the design work for Mooney's will be done by Oshkosh and the paperwork submitted to the FAA shortly after. I will update as soon as I get any further info. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeev Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 Hey everyone another update. I have been in constant contact with TruTrak regarding the approval of the Vision for our Mooney's. They have told me that the paperwork will be in to the FAA late this month and they are anticipating approval in September of this year. I am taking pre orders for the Vision at this time, if you are interested please email me the following: N number, name, address, phone, 12 or 24 volt system, which controller you want 2'', 3'' or flat pack. There is NO deposit required, I will submit your info to TruTrak under my account and they will hold a spot. When they have FAA approval I will contact you and if you would like to still place the order we can move forward with payment. The Vision will be $5000, that includes everything you need for the install. I have my name on the list already and my shops first install will be my J so they are not "learning" on your plane . That will also give me a really good idea of the hours / cost of install so there will be no surprises on that front. From what I have seen with other kits I am expecting 20-30 hrs for a Mooney with no auto pilot and 30-35hrs for a Mooney that needs the current autopilot removed, labor rates at my shop are $90/hr. Keep in mind as in my case I have a century III with good servos that I will be able to sell and recoup hopefully $1,500 or so. Installs will be available at EGA Aviation at North Las Vegas Airport (KVGT) or I can ship you the Vision to be installed by your own shop. There will be a Mooneyspace discount but TruTrak does not allow lower than retail advertising. Your discount will be included in your quote if you are a Mooneyspace member. I am so excited to get this in my aircraft and real happy technology like this is finally making it to GA with "affordable" pricing! Attached to this post is some info about the Vision and I have started a new thread over in avionics: I look forward to earning your business and thank you all for your support. Sanjeev Prasad Wolf Aviation sanjeev@wolfaviationsales.com 702-430-2255 MS Vision Info Pkt.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 I’m curious why the extra 20-30 percent install time when removing the old system? Having never done an install like this I always thought the “demo” work was very fast vs the rebuild. Extra time to keep the wiring harnesses intact for resale? Kicking around the idea of buying a kit for my IA to install. Any voodoo necessary on the install? Interested to find out how your plane goes. Thanks for the update! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeev Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 hours ago, MIm20c said: I’m curious why the extra 20-30 percent install time when removing the old system? Having never done an install like this I always thought the “demo” work was very fast vs the rebuild. Extra time to keep the wiring harnesses intact for resale? Kicking around the idea of buying a kit for my IA to install. Any voodoo necessary on the install? Interested to find out how your plane goes. Thanks for the update! Good question, I am thinking worst case with those labor rates but they are just estamates until we do the install on my plane I am hoping they will be lower. The way we quote labor at our shop is usually highest number of hours expected for the work then we only charge for actual time up to the estimated hours, if it goes over it comes out of our pocket. TruTrak told me to expect 20-25hrs on a fresh install, a plane with no autopilot. I am trying to account for the extra work depending on the aircrafts wiring behind the panel and removing the current autopilot in an way that allows the owner to sell it and recoup some money. There is no voodoo , one of the main things TruTrak wanted with the certified Vision is to simplify the install to keep the costs down. Based on their kits for the 172's and PA-28/32's the install is straight forward and I can confidently say any A&P familiar with the type of aircraft can install this. When it is approved I will post the Mooney install manual with pics as well as pictures and details on the install in my aircraft. I will be working with my shop to get the install as close to 20hrs as possible. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
231MJ Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 I talked to TruTrak today for an up-date on the Mooney STC. It seems the date is slipping to about the end of the year. Not too bad as long as it does not slip further, I'm tired of flying without an AP. Their sales are brisk, which is a good sign. Very friendly people - and they actually answer the phone - how refreshing is that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeev Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, 231MJ said: I talked to TruTrak today for an up-date on the Mooney STC. It seems the date is slipping to about the end of the year. Not too bad as long as it does not slip further, I'm tired of flying without an AP. Their sales are brisk, which is a good sign. Very friendly people - and they actually answer the phone - how refreshing is that! Thank you for the update. I spoke to Corey on the 27th and he told me "a few months" and that he will send me the install guide as soon as it is back from the engineers. I am really hoping for October but we all know how these things with the FAA go. I agree on the friendliness / customer service from TruTrak, they are always quick to answer questions and pick up the phone, great interactions so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Damn I'm holding my annual until I get a hold of the AP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 45 minutes ago, cliffy said: Damn I'm holding my annual until I get a hold of the AP. The one thing I'm not holding is my breath. These things do take time. Still, sounds really good if it can do all that for that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 hours ago, 231MJ said: I talked to TruTrak today for an up-date on the Mooney STC. It seems the date is slipping to about the end of the year. Not too bad as long as it does not slip further, I'm tired of flying without an AP. Their sales are brisk, which is a good sign. Very friendly people - and they actually answer the phone - how refreshing is that! I've put a couple hundred hours on our Mooney with no auto-pilot. I'm with you that I hate to see the date slipping further back, but for what they are saying it does for the price I am willing to keep flying without one and wait a few more months. Planning on purchasing it through @Jeev and if I decide to have him do the install too the Winter/Spring months are much nicer for flying to Vegas than the Summer/Fall months. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJMac Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 How does the trutrac handle a necessary wind correction? My understanding is it will fly the magenta line but won't a cross wind cause issues there? Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, NJMac said: How does the trutrac handle a necessary wind correction? My understanding is it will fly the magenta line but won't a cross wind cause issues there? Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk My tablet gives me a heading to fly and makes adjustments depending on what the winds are doing if they are pushing me off track. If the indicated heading I am flying is the same as the leg shows I should fly it works perfectly. In my mind I "think" that if I set the TruTrack to the heading on the tablet it will get me there. The reality in practice may be different. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeev Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 15 hours ago, NJMac said: How does the trutrac handle a necessary wind correction? My understanding is it will fly the magenta line but won't a cross wind cause issues there? Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk The magenta line is a ground track and the autopilot when in GPS mode will make whatever corrections are needed to follow that line. In heading mode you would need to make manual corrections to follow the line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeev Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 17 hours ago, Skates97 said: I've put a couple hundred hours on our Mooney with no auto-pilot. I'm with you that I hate to see the date slipping further back, but for what they are saying it does for the price I am willing to keep flying without one and wait a few more months. Planning on purchasing it through @Jeev and if I decide to have him do the install too the Winter/Spring months are much nicer for flying to Vegas than the Summer/Fall months. I really appreciate it and will keep you posted with any updates. Yes winter / spring flying around Vegas is great and I am looking forward to meeting you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 On 3/8/2018 at 1:53 PM, Bob - S50 said: However, as many fellow pilots have said, "If you do that, and something happens, what are you going to tell the NTSB when you are sitting at the long green table?" "Well since I am sitting before you, whatever actions I took was the best course of action and I used all resources presented to get me and my plane safely on the ground so we could all attend this meeting." "What else would you like to talk about " "Thank you have a nice day." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Yetti said: "Well since I am sitting before you, whatever actions I took was the best course of action and I used all resources presented to get me and my plane safely on the ground so we could all attend this meeting." "What else would you like to talk about " "Thank you have a nice day." That may or may not work. My point was, you can do just about anything you need to in an emergency. However, if it wasn't an emergency it will be a bit harder to explain if something happens. If all systems are operating normally, you don't have unexpected weather, you are landing at your intended destination, etc., and they determine one of the causes was your willful disregard of the limitations listed in the STC; the FAA might choose to take certificate action. Thank you, have a nice day. The TruTrak might some day be certified for approaches. But for now it is not. It will still be a wonderful aid for use during the enroute phase of flight. It will allow you to more easily check your progress against your flight plan, check the weather, review an approach plate. Just be careful if you choose to use it outside the limitations set forth in the STC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 I think you pretty much excluded any reason for the FAA to become involved much less hear of the event so looks like we are good here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 On 8/31/2018 at 2:15 PM, cliffy said: Damn I'm holding my annual until I get a hold of the AP. When is the annual due? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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