Dynon Certified thread

[Keith20EH]

I just emailed Dynon and below is their response.  Not what I had hoped, but looks like my ‘66, mostly original panel will have to wait another year.  

From 2018, we are taking stock of what we’ve accomplished, what we’ve learned, and improving our processes accordingly. We have not expanded our AML as rapidly as we intended during 2018 as certification is a complex and difficult process. We are nevertheless working closely with the FAA and making adjustments to our AML expansion processes and are confident we will pick up the rate of AML additions in 2019.  The M20 will not be completed during this quarter as originally thought, and quite possibly, maybe not for some time. We will know more come late spring/early summer. 

Best Regards,

Dynon Avionics Sales / Orders
sales@dynonavionics.com

[carusoam]

Thanks for sharing the mail, Keith!

The Gov shutdown didn’t get the blame...

Dynon has a lot of work to get completed.

Best regards,

-a-

[Stryker]

Bummer but not entirely unexpected. 

[John Car]

On 12/30/2017 at 8:46 AM, Yetti said:

Apparently one of my buddies was able to get the Skyview in his Baron.   Time for a lunch meet up since we are in the same FSDO area.    I have been reading the install manual seems straight forward install.   ADSB then followed with engine monitor with screen installed on the Co Pilot side is the plan.

What local FSDO did he use?

[John Car]

On 2/28/2019 at 7:49 PM, Keith20EH said:

I just emailed Dynon and below is their response.  Not what I had hoped, but looks like my ‘66, mostly original panel will have to wait another year.  

From 2018, we are taking stock of what we’ve accomplished, what we’ve learned, and improving our processes accordingly. We have not expanded our AML as rapidly as we intended during 2018 as certification is a complex and difficult process. We are nevertheless working closely with the FAA and making adjustments to our AML expansion processes and are confident we will pick up the rate of AML additions in 2019.  The M20 will not be completed during this quarter as originally thought, and quite possibly, maybe not for some time. We will know more come late spring/early summer. 

Best Regards,

Dynon Avionics Sales / Orders
sales@dynonavionics.com

Why are the FEDS slowing down the implementation of affordable life-saving equipment for our aircraft?  I really don't get it.  Dynon systems are proven in hundreds of light sport aircraft and now the Cessna 172.   The FEDS should be held accountable.

[Navi]

2 hours ago, John Car said:

Why are the FEDS slowing down the implementation of affordable life-saving equipment for our aircraft?  I really don't get it.  Dynon systems are proven in hundreds of light sport aircraft and now the Cessna 172.   The FEDS should be held accountable.

Think there is more to this… The FAA is an issue of course...

But there appears to have been a serious mis-step by Dynon here..

From a business/ marketing view, I cannot understand why Dynon targeted the 172/PA-28 market in the first place..   Yes, the "raw" numbers are there, but most of these two aircraft types will NEVER be candidates for a 30K$ upgrade. Seldom does an upgrade get installed in an aircraft worth less than that.  The proper target market for the HDX is aircraft worth 75 - 90 K and up. (And recent communications from them indicate they are  stopping al efforts for these aircraft and focusing on  the better market. )

Seems the disappointing results in the 172 marked has caused them pause and a (much needed) re evaluation of their business plan.

I hope the mis-step has not hurt them too much.....

Nav

[John Car]

13 minutes ago, Navi said:

Think there is more to this… The FAA is an issue of course...

But there appears to have been a serious mis-step by Dynon here..

From a business/ marketing view, I cannot understand why Dynon targeted the 172/PA-28 market in the first place..   Yes, the "raw" numbers are there, but most of these two aircraft types will NEVER be candidates for a 30K$ upgrade. Seldom does an upgrade get installed in an aircraft worth less than that.  The proper target market for the HDX is aircraft worth 75 - 90 K and up. (And recent communications from them indicate they are  stopping al efforts for these aircraft and focusing on  the better market. )

Seems the disappointing results in the 172 marked has caused them pause and a (much needed) re evaluation of their business plan.

I hope the mis-step has not hurt them too much.....

Nav

$30 K??  You can install a Dynon with Autopilot for less than 30K More like 15K if you don't go crazy with other add-ons. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by John Car

[Navi]

1 hour ago, John Car said:

$30 K??  You can install a Dynon with Autopilot for less than 30K More like 15K if you don't go crazy with other add-ons. 

Possibly... But I have not had a quote and it is not in my future.. but the numbers being tossed around  on other forums are in that range... probably with addons... usually with the AP and an engine monitor...

Note the 30K I spoke of above is for an "upgrade" not necessarily a Dynon upgrade... but the HDX figures prominently in those upgrades. The  Quotes I have heard of for the required  " new panel " to accommodate the HDX are running in several AMUs, before the glass is purchased and installed...  .. I think you would be hard pressed to install the HDX with Autopilot for 15k.

But I will leave that to others closer to these projects than I ..

Nav

Edited March 12, 2019 by Navi

[Yetti]

2 hours ago, John Car said:

$30 K??  You can install a Dynon with Autopilot for less than 30K More like 15K if you don't go crazy with other add-ons. 

Two HDX screens is 10K    They spec the HDX Screens in the STC so you have to use them plus the back up unit.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Yetti

[Navi]

7 hours ago, John Car said:

$30 K??  You can install a Dynon with Autopilot for less than 30K More like 15K if you don't go crazy with other add-ons. 

Here ya go!  This is for the Bo..

http://www.dynoncertified.com/pdfs/Bonanza-sheet.pdf

But I went North of $15K before I got halfway down the page, and the installation is lengthy and complex…

YMMV!

Nav

[Rick Junkin]

$27,500 by my math, give or take, for hardware.

For comparison, subtract $7K for a GFC 500 and you're reasonable close to a Garmin 500TXI 10" plus G5. Its late and fuzzy math on my part, someone else will surely do the fact-checking.

Is this working out differently than we anticipated at Oshkosh when we all raised our hands??

Cheers,
Rick

[John Car]

10 hours ago, Junkman said:

$27,500 by my math, give or take, for hardware.

For comparison, subtract $7K for a GFC 500 and you're reasonable close to a Garmin 500TXI 10" plus G5. Its late and fuzzy math on my part, someone else will surely do the fact-checking.

Is this working out differently than we anticipated at Oshkosh when we all raised our hands??

Cheers,
Rick

Dynon system is not that complex.  All serial cables connect all the hardware which is already pre-made.  You are running power and grounds.  Really basic stuff.  I will take a look at the costs once again. 

[Navi]

8 minutes ago, John Car said:

Dynon system is not that complex.  All serial cables connect all the hardware which is already pre-made.  You are running power and grounds.  Really basic stuff.  I will take a look at the costs once again. 

I think your are correct with respect to the Dynon interconnection  stuff, but connecting it to other legacy equipment can be time consuming.

The HDX installs in Cessnas are consuming huge hours due to custom cutting and fitting of the panel, perhaps unfamiliarity with the process and that most Dynon installs have extensive interconnections and plumbing to many other devices. . Few Avionics techs are up to the metal working tasks involved and some shops will just not get involved in what is essentially "custom panel work".  .

This may improve with time, but it is going to take a long time with so few getting into the market..

Cap

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, Navi said:

I think your are correct with respect to the Dynon interconnection  stuff, but connecting it to other legacy equipment can be time consuming.

The HDX installs in Cessnas are consuming huge hours due to custom cutting and fitting of the panel, perhaps unfamiliarity with the process and that most Dynon installs have extensive interconnections and plumbing to many other devices. . Few Avionics techs are up to the metal working tasks involved and some shops will just not get involved in what is essentially "custom panel work".  .

This may improve with time, but it is going to take a long time with so few getting into the market..

Cap

My Grumpy IA let's the Avionics shops do the lectric stuff.   This is easy stuff for me.   If I had the time, I would go get my Airframe.    I put myself through college installing 2 way radios and the early days of computers was building serial cables.  I am not sure if I am happy or sad that the cool airplane stuff is the things I learned in the early 1990s.   Good news is one of my other friends just got his IA.   Where is my rebuilt fuel servo, got to finish the Annual.

[kris_adams]

well I was hoping they would accelerate not slow down.  Certainly disappointing.  Looking to do a phased implementation of glass...G5, e5, or HDX1100--something that gives me a road map to upgrade as I want.

The Bonanza price sheet is certainly more than what I was wanting to do at once (dual 10" screens, backup D10A backup, transponder (I'm already 2020 compliant), auto pilot (mine works for now), engine monitor (I already have a new EI), and probably other stuff I'm missing..

[John Car]

8 hours ago, Navi said:

I think your are correct with respect to the Dynon interconnection  stuff, but connecting it to other legacy equipment can be time consuming.

The HDX installs in Cessnas are consuming huge hours due to custom cutting and fitting of the panel, perhaps unfamiliarity with the process and that most Dynon installs have extensive interconnections and plumbing to many other devices. . Few Avionics techs are up to the metal working tasks involved and some shops will just not get involved in what is essentially "custom panel work".  .

This may improve with time, but it is going to take a long time with so few getting into the market..

Cap

With Dynon equipment, you have to go all in Dynon.  The only thing you can use is your GPS navigator and engine monitor.   All the rest will have to be Dynon which is really good because it's all modular and takes up very little panel space.  You can sell all your old equipment on ebay radio's transponder etc. 

[Bob - S50]

From what I understand (and I have been known to be wrong once or twice)...

I don't think you are REQUIRED to have a dual screen.  All you NEED is one.  The second is optional.  You do require the D10A as a backup.  You can keep your current transponder but it won't display traffic on the main screen.  There are optional control panels that would be nice, but again, not required.  You can keep your comm radios too.  And it will hook up to your GTN but you can only push flight plan changes one direction.

When I added up all the items I would want it came up to something around $12,000 in parts.  Just about the same as the GFC500.

[John Car]

On 3/13/2019 at 8:46 PM, Bob - S50 said:

From what I understand (and I have been known to be wrong once or twice)...

I don't think you are REQUIRED to have a dual screen.  All you NEED is one.  The second is optional.  You do require the D10A as a backup.  You can keep your current transponder but it won't display traffic on the main screen.  There are optional control panels that would be nice, but again, not required.  You can keep your comm radios too.  And it will hook up to your GTN but you can only push flight plan changes one direction.

When I added up all the items I would want it came up to something around $12,000 in parts.  Just about the same as the GFC500.

That sounds right Bob.    This is a very interesting article on installing non-TSO avionics in certified aircraft.   I believe all the Dynon equipment is TSO because it's installed in sports pilot category aircraft.   https://www.valavionics.com/installation-in-type-certificated-aircraft.html

[NotarPilot]

On 3/13/2019 at 2:40 PM, John Car said:

With Dynon equipment, you have to go all in Dynon.  You can sell all your old equipment on ebay radio's transponder etc. 

But I really like my L3 Lynx. It gives me a lot of info.

[Bob - S50]

2 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

But I really like my L3 Lynx. It gives me a lot of info.

You can keep your L3.  The only advantage you get by using the Dynon transponder is that it will display traffic on the Dynon main screen.  With your L3 you'll have to look at the L3 or your tablet (if your EFB is compatible) to see traffic.

[David Lloyd]

6 hours ago, Bob - S50 said:

.  The only advantage you get by using the Dynon transponder is that it will display traffic on the Dynon main screen.  

You will get TIS traffic displayed on the main screen with the Dynon transponder.  For ADSB traffic and weather to display on the Dynon main screen you will need the Dynon ADSB receiver.

[MIm20c]

Wanted to update this thread with some info from BT. Evidently the cost to certify the avionics into different planes is higher than expected. They are increasing the STC cost for bonanza V tails to $4k. I’m not sure if this will increase again on future aircraft or not. Just an FYI for those waiting to see what happens for Mooney aircraft. 

[Yetti]

Consistent with Dynon’s longstanding commitment to affordability while at the same time offering best-in-class features and performance, we’re excited to announce some restructuring of our SkyView product family for 2019.   As our line has evolved over the years the SkyView family has grown to four different EFIS models:     SkyView HDX - The premier SkyView experience, featuring our best touchscreen display, beautiful design, unrivaled control ergonomics, and next-generation touch interface. SkyView Touch - SkyView Touch system set the standard for marrying intuitive touchscreen control with a full set of hard, tactile controls for use in turbulence. SkyView Classic - The original SkyView that set the benchmark in the industry and continues to provide outstanding performance and value today. SkyView SE - Our entry level EFIS system, essentially a SkyView Classic with GPS and navigation omitted for those who already have a navigation solution and are interested in the lowest price point possible for a true EFIS system. It also makes a great replacement for legacy D100 series systems.   Effective immediately we are retiring SkyView Touch, and we are lowering the price on SkyView Classic and SkyView SE!   Why are we making these changes? SkyView Touch has served us well, but with the HDX now our state-of-the-art offering with an enhanced user interface, better display quality, and a full touch interface we felt there was too much overlap and consumer confusion. With the EFIS market getting ever more competitive, it is now time to trim the line and focus on the HDX experience on the high end while opening up lower price point opportunities with our more mature technology. SkyView Classic and SkyView SE systems see price drops of between $200 and $500 per display, depending on the model. With these changes, 7” SkyView SE systems are priced almost the same as the Dynon D100 legacy products they replace and add additional optional capabilities like 2020 ADS-B Out compliance.   Other updates The SV-EMS-221 engine monitoring module for Rotax 912 iS and 915 iS engines is reduced from $1,050 to $600, putting it at parity with the SV-EMS-220 for other engine types. There are various pricing changes to engine monitoring packages and harnesses. Current list pricing for all of Dynon’s products can be found on our website.   Lastly, we are also beginning the process of retiring our D10/D100 series legacy products. Due to certain parts that are no longer available, the entry-level EFIS-D6 and the EFIS-D60 have been fully discontinued. The rest of the D10/D100 series remains available as part of Dynon’s “legacy” line of products. These legacy products will continue to remain in production but will have limited availability as they wind down.   With these changes, we are pleased to reinforce our commitment to delivering affordable, advanced avionics systems for light aircraft owners and pilots.

VISIT DYNON.AERO

2018 was an exciting time for Dynon Certified. We received the first STC approval for our flagship SkyView HDX system for most Cessna 172 models and then completed an amendment to include our complete suite including autopilot. While that’s a great start, we are aware there are thousands more of you that have indicated your interest in Dynon Certified products for your other aircraft makes and models. In 2019 we will continue expanding our reach to make that happen.   Simply put, growing the approved model list (AML) has gone slower than we’d hoped, and the government shutdown didn’t help when FAA progress essentially stopped. Though we had hoped to be able to deliver to a tighter schedule we have learned much about the process that we’ll benefit from, and that will continue. Now that the FAA is back in business, we expect to receive approval for the 35 series Bonanza in the coming weeks. Expect a formal announcement of that once it is signed, most likely during the month of April.   Going forward, we’re changing our approach to both expanding the AML and how we communicate our progress. Instead of publishing a calendar that predicts various models against specific dates, we’ll more simply tell you what we’re working on now and what we expect to be working on next. We’ll only estimate dates for aircraft that we’re actually working on until we get a better sense of our pace going forward.   From an implementation perspective, we anticipate going deeper into specific makes and models to capture as many of the variants of a particular aircraft family as possible. Practically speaking, this means that the next aircraft that we will be adding to the AML after the 35 series Bonanza is the A36 family. In fact, we’ve acquired an A36 for this project and work has already begun.   In addition to the Bonanza line, work continues on the piston twin Piper Seneca with approval expected in the first half of 2019. After that, the Cessna 182 is up next and we expect that to be done before the end of 2019. All further additions to the approved model list are yet to be determined.   Since the outset of the Certified program, we’ve been committed to a quality experience for our customers. We feel strongly that that is the key to our long term success. We have therefore added a relatively small number of dealer/installer partners - especially while our AML is limited - that we are confident will provide a good customer experience. With this newsletter, we are pleased to announce two additions to our dealer network. Check out our complete dealer list at http://www.dynoncertified.com/stc-install.php   As 2019 and beyond unfold we expect the list of planned aircraft to evolve as we continue to learn. In short, we want to let you know our honest thinking without over-promising specific models and dates. A continuously updated list of active and planned aircraft approvals is available at Dynon Certified website.

VISIT DYNONCERTIFIED.COM

 

 

[NotarPilot]

How does Garmin get over 500 models certified for their G3X touch all at once while Dynon is doing one model at a time?  I’m not criticizing, just curious how that happened. Hell, Garmin even got the M22 added to the AML! 

[ArtVandelay]

How does Garmin get over 500 models certified for their G3X touch all at once while Dynon is doing one model at a time?  I’m not criticizing, just curious how that happened. Hell, Garmin even got the M22 added to the AML! 

Because of the autopilots, that’s why Dynon is separating out the autopilot and will now try to do the aml route for the skyview system.
Because of the unique mounting of servos for each model, they have to be individually tested.


Tom