Dynon Certified thread

[KSMooniac]

That is a huge improvement! Surely they started to realize they could get all the STC's approved but not sell any if they restricted installations to 3 shops in their network. Good move, great news.

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[Bob - S50]

And they said the expect the STC for the Mooney Q4 or 2018.  However, that is just for the display, not the autopilot.  Autopilot projected to come in Q2 or 2019.  Looking at the estimated costs for the Bonanza...

STC $2500

Flight instruments, moving map, VFR GPS navigator including D10 backup attitude indicator $9465.  You can save $1300 by getting the 7" screen instead of the 10" screen except it is not yet available.

ADS-B OUT/IN $3163.  If you already have out, you should be able to get just in for about $963 or maybe a little bit less.

3 axis autopilot $3738.  If you want a separate panel to control the autopilot (like Garmin) and for setting bugs (like Garmin) that will be another $800, but it is not yet available.  Pitch trim is not available.  Although, if you already have pitch trim I think they will eventually be able to give you autotrim using your existing trim system.

Engine monitor $1637.

Want to connect your IFR GPS to the Dynon?  $499

So to get an IFR, 3 axis autopilot with dedicated panels for setting bugs and controlling the autopilot (when available) you are looking at about $17,000 in parts.

Just for comparison, G5 ADI $2149.  G5 HSI (including GMU11 and GAD29B) $2975.  GFC500 $6995 (includes 2 servos).  Servo prices not available anymore, but if I remember right the certified GSA28 was $1750 (experimental is $750).  So to get dual G5's and a 3 axis autopilot would cost about $13,900.  Add another servo for pitch trim and you would be up to about $14,600 in parts.

So it comes down to features and price difference, just like any other avionics choice.

[toto]

1 hour ago, MIm20c said:

Thanks for that info. Great news for owner installed units with an IA sign off. Should drop the total cost considerably. 

Would an owner installation with an IA sign off count as a "qualified installer" for Dynon?

(I honestly have no idea what they mean by a "qualified installer" unless they're expecting it to be a repair station.)

 

[Yetti]

http://www.dynonavionics.com/certified/aml.php

 

[David Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Bob - S50 said:

And they said the expect the STC for the Mooney Q4 or 2018.  However, that is just for the display, not the autopilot.  Autopilot projected to come in Q2 or 2019.  Looking at the estimated costs for the Bonanza...

STC $2500

Flight instruments, moving map, VFR GPS navigator including D10 backup attitude indicator $9465.  You can save $1300 by getting the 7" screen instead of the 10" screen except it is not yet available.

ADS-B OUT/IN $3163.  If you already have out, you should be able to get just in for about $963 or maybe a little bit less.

3 axis autopilot $3738.  If you want a separate panel to control the autopilot (like Garmin) and for setting bugs (like Garmin) that will be another $800, but it is not yet available.  Pitch trim is not available.  Although, if you already have pitch trim I think they will eventually be able to give you autotrim using your existing trim system.

Engine monitor $1637.

Want to connect your IFR GPS to the Dynon?  $499

So to get an IFR, 3 axis autopilot with dedicated panels for setting bugs and controlling the autopilot (when available) you are looking at about $17,000 in parts.

Just for comparison, G5 ADI $2149.  G5 HSI (including GMU11 and GAD29B) $2975.  GFC500 $6995 (includes 2 servos).  Servo prices not available anymore, but if I remember right the certified GSA28 was $1750 (experimental is $750).  So to get dual G5's and a 3 axis autopilot would cost about $13,900.  Add another servo for pitch trim and you would be up to about $14,600 in parts.

So it comes down to features and price difference, just like any other avionics choice.

Not available just means not yet on the STC paperwork.  They have product, I have it flying..

I agree, it does come down to features and price difference just like any other avionics choice.  When you compare the G5, don't you need to add in an engine monitor, ADSB in/out, a big display with map that can display VFR and IFR charts, approach plates, airport info, an engine monitor that replaces all the instruments,  a 1090ES transponder....  You could, maybe should compare with the 500Txi.

It would surprise me if Dynon would allow owner installs with IA sign-off.  Most systems will be paired with an IFR certified navigator, Garmin's 650/750 or Avidyne's 440/540.  Either way, there will be some sophisticated wiring beyond the scope of most A&P shops.

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, Bob - S50 said:

And they said the expect the STC for the Mooney Q4 or 2018.  However, that is just for the display, not the autopilot.  Autopilot projected to come in Q2 or 2019.  Looking at the estimated costs for the Bonanza...

STC $2500

Flight instruments, moving map, VFR GPS navigator including D10 backup attitude indicator $9465.  You can save $1300 by getting the 7" screen instead of the 10" screen except it is not yet available.

ADS-B OUT/IN $3163.  If you already have out, you should be able to get just in for about $963 or maybe a little bit less.

3 axis autopilot $3738.  If you want a separate panel to control the autopilot (like Garmin) and for setting bugs (like Garmin) that will be another $800, but it is not yet available.  Pitch trim is not available.  Although, if you already have pitch trim I think they will eventually be able to give you autotrim using your existing trim system.

Engine monitor $1637.

Want to connect your IFR GPS to the Dynon?  $499

So to get an IFR, 3 axis autopilot with dedicated panels for setting bugs and controlling the autopilot (when available) you are looking at about $17,000 in parts.

Just for comparison, G5 ADI $2149.  G5 HSI (including GMU11 and GAD29B) $2975.  GFC500 $6995 (includes 2 servos).  Servo prices not available anymore, but if I remember right the certified GSA28 was $1750 (experimental is $750).  So to get dual G5's and a 3 axis autopilot would cost about $13,900.  Add another servo for pitch trim and you would be up to about $14,600 in parts.

So it comes down to features and price difference, just like any other avionics choice.

Looking at the price list there are a fair amount of items that can be left out.   The 5 port hub and some of the wiring would be one item.  Most of the components can be lined up serially.   Since they have most of the items as Optional you can buy the main components/display for about $5K and then just add to it year by year.   I still think I am going to take the 2 radio stacks and build a single wide stack for the screen  and leave steam main panel for awhile.  Seems like a conversation with the grumpy IA is in order.

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, toto said:

Would an owner installation with an IA sign off count as a "qualified installer" for Dynon?

(I honestly have no idea what they mean by a "qualified installer" unless they're expecting it to be a repair station.)

 

I can't find the wording, but you nominate your IA and then their name is listed on the STC and they are responsible for a working install.   And Dynon will give them support.

[aviatoreb]

25 minutes ago, David Lloyd said:

Not available just means not yet on the STC paperwork.  They have product, I have it flying..

I agree, it does come down to features and price difference just like any other avionics choice.  When you compare the G5, don't you need to add in an engine monitor, ADSB in/out, a big display with map that can display VFR and IFR charts, approach plates, airport info, an engine monitor that replaces all the instruments,  a 1090ES transponder....  You could, maybe should compare with the 500Txi.

It would surprise me if Dynon would allow owner installs with IA sign-off.  Most systems will be paired with an IFR certified navigator, Garmin's 650/750 or Avidyne's 440/540.  Either way, there will be some sophisticated wiring beyond the scope of most A&P shops.

Well comparing to 500Txi is fair when contrasting complete install feature to feature.

But if comparing what would be the cost from where you are today - e.g. all I really want for sure is the autopilot and the display is nice but not a must have - and I have an engine monitor, adsb, etc - then what is the price difference.  Still its closer than you would think considering that even skipping all those parts of the Dynon and then comparing head to head with a dual G5 GFC500 install...  but I do think then (professionally installed) the Dynon will cost more since there are more components and features, opening the gap.

I do think the GFC500 is a more feature rich more advanced autopilot so wanting just the autopilot I currently tip my hat that way.  Of course nothing is currently available so we shall see.

One thing I would not do is to install a system like Dynon because I want an autopilot but that component is not allowed yet - e.g. a phased installation with the STC for the rest promised down the road in 201X in QX.  Not to mention I expect some savings in the install when just doing the whole thing in one shot than piece meal.

[Bob - S50]

2 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

Not available just means not yet on the STC paperwork.  They have product, I have it flying..

I agree, it does come down to features and price difference just like any other avionics choice.  When you compare the G5, don't you need to add in an engine monitor, ADSB in/out, a big display with map that can display VFR and IFR charts, approach plates, airport info, an engine monitor that replaces all the instruments,  a 1090ES transponder....  You could, maybe should compare with the 500Txi.

It would surprise me if Dynon would allow owner installs with IA sign-off.  Most systems will be paired with an IFR certified navigator, Garmin's 650/750 or Avidyne's 440/540.  Either way, there will be some sophisticated wiring beyond the scope of most A&P shops.

Well, yes and no.  That $17,000 in parts did not include the ADS-B or engine monitor.  If you add those then you are looking at almost $22,000 in parts.

But yes, the Dynon has many features the GFC500 does not.  That includes synthetic vision, charts, plates, TAS, winds, and highway in the sky for example.  Garmin has the option of manual electric trim.  Dynon does not.  If one G5 quits, either one can function as an ADI.  If the Skyview quits you have the D10 to fly by.  However, the G5 ADI will also give you enough info to navigate showing course, deviation, and GPS track info.  I don't think the D10 does that.  On the other hand, if your IFR GPS quits,  you are SOL with Garmin as far as navigation goes.  But with the Skyview, the built in VFR GPS navigation will still work.

So as we agree, it comes down to which features are most important to you and how much you are willing to pay for them.

[Yetti]

8 hours ago, Bob - S50 said:

Well, yes and no.  That $17,000 in parts did not include the ADS-B or engine monitor.  If you add those then you are looking at almost $22,000 in parts.

But yes, the Dynon has many features the GFC500 does not.  That includes synthetic vision, charts, plates, TAS, winds, and highway in the sky for example.  Garmin has the option of manual electric trim.  Dynon does not.  If one G5 quits, either one can function as an ADI.  If the Skyview quits you have the D10 to fly by.  However, the G5 ADI will also give you enough info to navigate showing course, deviation, and GPS track info.  I don't think the D10 does that.  On the other hand, if your IFR GPS quits,  you are SOL with Garmin as far as navigation goes.  But with the Skyview, the built in VFR GPS navigation will still work.

So as we agree, it comes down to which features are most important to you and how much you are willing to pay for them.

If you install two Skyview screens.  They are independent processing units, so if one blows, the other keeps working. Each processing unit can have it's own battery.  Also there is a secondary AHRS...    Last I look it seems doable to interface the Skyview system with an AccuTrak II.   Which works for me till they have the AP on the STC.

[rbridges]

I just had an Aspen pro installed. Can a dynon be installed as a vfr moving map and engine monitor i.e. can it be used as a non-primary screen in conjunction with the Aspen?

[Yetti]

10 minutes ago, rbridges said:

I just had an Aspen pro installed. Can a dynon be installed as a vfr moving map and engine monitor i.e. can it be used as a non-primary screen in conjunction with the Aspen?

I believe it would just be two primary with the Aspen Pro taking the place of the D10.   Since it looks like the D10 is part of the required STC install.   You may have to buy a D10 and stick it over on the copilots side.....  Which would be cool if you let other people drive right seat.   The Problem with the Mooney is panel real estate.   It is tempting to do a couple of these installs get some more Airframe hours under my belt and get my Airframe cert.  The problem is running wires in vehicles and making up sub d connectors is how I put myself through college.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Yetti

[rbridges]

2 minutes ago, Yetti said:

I believe it would just be two primary with the Aspen Pro taking the place of the D10.   Since it looks like the D10 is part of the required STC install.   You may have to buy a D10 and stick it over on the copilots side.....  Which would be cool if you let other people drive right seat.   The Problem with the Mooney is panel real estate.   It is tempting to do a couple of these installs get some more Airframe hours under my belt and get my Airframe cert.  The problem is running wires in vehicles and making up sub d connectors is how I put myself through college.

Just from inquiring about the Garmin G5, it's not always possible to move something from primary to backup role.  I think it would be nice to have a large moving map with primary engine monitor but it may not work with this combo. 

[Yetti]

This is 10" Skyview screen....   Takes up the 2 radio stacks.   I think real estate is the bigger issue.

[Bob - S50]

2 hours ago, Yetti said:

If you install two Skyview screens.  They are independent processing units, so if one blows, the other keeps working. Each processing unit can have it's own battery.  Also there is a secondary AHRS...    Last I look it seems doable to interface the Skyview system with an AccuTrak II.   Which works for me till they have the AP on the STC.

Yes, you can do that... for another $3500 - $4500.  Now up to something over $25,000 in parts.

[Bob - S50]

2 hours ago, Yetti said:

This is 10" Skyview screen....   Takes up the 2 radio stacks.   I think real estate is the bigger issue.

When I was considering the Dynon, I had decided that I would want the smaller 7" screen because it would essentially fit in the space of 4 steam gauges.  The 10" requires the space of 6 steam gauges.  Even with the Dynon, I would still want to keep my steam gauge airspeed and altimeter as emergency backup.  I can't see how it would be possible to fit 2 let alone 3 Dynon panels in my '78 J unless most of my radios were remotes.

[JRam]

If this thing works with a GTN 750 (and all my Garmin radios and xponder) and my current AP, this looks like a real option to replace my primary instruments and engine monitoring instead of the 500TXi for a much cheaper price...am I wrong here? Isn't the SkyView the CB version of the 500TXi? What am I missing here?

[Yetti]

8 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

When I was considering the Dynon, I had decided that I would want the smaller 7" screen because it would essentially fit in the space of 4 steam gauges.  The 10" requires the space of 6 steam gauges.  Even with the Dynon, I would still want to keep my steam gauge airspeed and altimeter as emergency backup.  I can't see how it would be possible to fit 2 let alone 3 Dynon panels in my '78 J unless most of my radios were remotes.

Yes.   I was headed in the 7" screen direction at least for the first starter screen in the middle section of the panel.  Functions for the center screen would be Engine and transponder (remote mount).  With back up instruments if needed.  Even with the 7" there would be a need to take the two radio stacks and make them one, but could retain the KX155 and Audio panel.  And find a spot for the DME.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Yes.   I was headed in the 7" screen direction at least for the first starter screen in the middle section of the panel.  Functions for the center screen would be Engine and transponder (remote mount).  With back up instruments if needed.  Even with the 7" there would be a need to take the two radio stacks and make them one, but could retain the KX155 and Audio panel.  And find a spot for the DME.

I thought the point was to remove the steam instruments, why are you putting it in the radio stack?

[David Lloyd]

17 hours ago, Yetti said:

Looking at the price list there are a fair amount of items that can be left out.   The 5 port hub and some of the wiring would be one item.  Most of the components can be lined up serially.   Since they have most of the items as Optional you can buy the main components/display for about $5K and then just add to it year by year.   I still think I am going to take the 2 radio stacks and build a single wide stack for the screen  and leave steam main panel for awhile.  Seems like a conversation with the grumpy IA is in order.

Most Dynon components share information by a network cable, much like a computer cable with Dsub connectors.  Each cable has two sets of data lines, if one is compromised the other takes over. The displays, button panel and knob panel each have two connectors available and can be in the end or middle of a daisy chain of components.  The engine monitor, ARINC, autopilot servos and ADAHRS have only one connector. The transponder and ADSB receiver use a serial connection teed to each display.   Here's where the hub comes into play: If each display, engine monitor, ARINC and ADAHRS are all connected through a 5 port hub and one display dies, all info is available to the other display.  If one display is removed for whatever reason, all info is available to the other display. Can you do without the hub? Yep, but for a few dollars and a few extra cables, there is much redundancy.  

There is software cross checking going on all the time. Alerts will show broken wires, one data line error, data mismatches, etc.  Every now and then some upside-down, slipping, ham-fisted maneuver will cause a ADAHRS mismatch.  You won't see that in a Mooney.  Hopefully.

Another thread someone was asking about a G meter.  Yep.  You can show it full time in place of the HSI.  Or have it pop up at some programed force.  Mine is set for 2.5 G. Also has a visual AOA indicator and audible warnings. 

I've got 7" displays.  My 67 year old eyes would like the bigger font of the 10" displays.

6 hours ago, Yetti said:

If you install two Skyview screens.  They are independent processing units, so if one blows, the other keeps working. Each processing unit can have it's own battery.  Also there is a secondary AHRS...    Last I look it seems doable to interface the Skyview system with an AccuTrak II.   Which works for me till they have the AP on the STC.

Didn't show the second ADAHRS on the data sheet the 1st I think is $1200, the 2nd is less, by 2 or $400.  I think the STC will require a backup battery for each unit.  When new the battery will power the display for at least an hour.  Software forces you to test the battery once a year. One of my batteries failed the test in it's seventh year, the other is still going strong.

Edited August 24, 2018 by David Lloyd

[Yetti]

3 hours ago, teejayevans said:

I thought the point was to remove the steam instruments, why are you putting it in the radio stack?

Modular upgrade path and planed capital expenditure plan, couple with lots of experience running projects where big bang is always the last choice.

[kris_adams]

I am excited about this announcement as well.  Time to make some cardboard cutouts of my own!

[Steve Dawson]

Panel with left inst R4 wDynon Model (1).pdf

 

 

Not sure how to paste a drawing but here's a PDF with a 10" screen layout

 

[ShuRugal]

23 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

Either way, there will be some sophisticated wiring beyond the scope of most A&P shops.

Eh, wiring diagrams and D-sub connectors are not exactly rocket surgery.  Any A&P that can't read a wiring diagram is an A&P I won't be trusting my life with.

[toto]

On 8/23/2018 at 8:28 PM, aviatoreb said:

ne thing I would not do is to install a system like Dynon because I want an autopilot but that component is not allowed yet - e.g. a phased installation with the STC for the rest promised down the road in 201X in QX.  Not to mention I expect some savings in the install when just doing the whole thing in one shot than piece meal.

Out of curiosity, if you were to have a shop do the full install, can you placard the AP inop and hand-fly for a couple months until the paperwork comes through? What's the likelihood that the FAA requires significant changes to the conforming device after it's already been approved for other types?