hotshottt06 Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Ok, finally gonna ask this question since I keep having issues. I have a '67 M20F Exec....and when I know I'm going to fly somewhere typically the next day or next couple days, I'll pull the plane from the hangar and taxi down to the fuel island. Upon the first start, it fires up no problem. When I am done fueling and I go to restart, I have been having one heck of a time getting it to start. I never have issues after a flight on a true "hot start" but after a quick taxi and shut down, the restart is a pain in my butt. I have tried my hot start procedure, and today I figured I'd try my initial start procedure, which was also a dud. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Shut off at 1100 rpm with mixture. For restart don't touch anything. mixture closed. just crank. Be ready to do the two handed get things going. slowly add mixture. How do you know it is flooded? When it pops and you add mixture and it dies. Open throttle, mixture closed and crank. when pops again do the two handed thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75_M20F Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 My F model hot start procedure is I have the throttle at idle, elect fuel pump stays off, mixture cutoff. I engage the starter and it will turn over 2 or 3 times and fire. Don't go to full rich mixture at that point, just ease the mixture up to about 1/3 towards rich and it will usually catch and keep running. Works great on my plane anyway.... about the same the above post...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 Many people like... shutdown at 1000 rpm. Helps standardize the procedure... avoid adding extra fuel, accidently. when all else fails, flood intentionally. Go to flooded start... this is definitely not a hot start, nor a cold start... Stuff I have read about on MS... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, hotshottt06 said: Ok, finally gonna ask this question since I keep having issues. I have a '67 M20F Exec....and when I know I'm going to fly somewhere typically the next day or next couple days, I'll pull the plane from the hangar and taxi down to the fuel island. Upon the first start, it fires up no problem. When I am done fueling and I go to restart, I have been having one heck of a time getting it to start. I never have issues after a flight on a true "hot start" but after a quick taxi and shut down, the restart is a pain in my butt. I have tried my hot start procedure, and today I figured I'd try my initial start procedure, which was also a dud. Any suggestions? I just did this yesterday in my 67 F and it fired on third blade. As Anthony stated, on shutdown set RPM for 1000 and go to idle cut off. The engine is not really hot so there's been no heat to boil fuel from the lines into the manifold. This is fine as long as system holds fuel pressure at idle cut off. When you prime for the first start of the day does it hold pressure after the prime at idle cut off? Also, I see no reason to use a flooded start procedure on a cold engine unless it's actually flooded. On a cool day a cold IO360 will start in a few blades if you crack the throttle, set full rich and crank. The priming and the boost pump can be cut out of the start procedure entirely. Edited December 13, 2017 by Shadrach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnisley Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 In my early years as a Moony pilot I was always nervous about warm/hot starts, since I started using the method shown below I've never had a failed or flooded start. Cold start: throttle quarter, fuel pump one, mixture full rich for 6-8 seconds. Warm or hot start: throttle quarter, fuel pump on, mixture full rich 1-3 seconds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctsurf Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 3 hours ago, Shadrach said: Also, I see no reason to use a flooded start procedure on a cold engine unless it's actually flooded. On the whole, it saves a lot of wear and tear on the airplane and especially the starter. This is not the flooded procedure, it is the old procedure that keeps you from looking like a fool with a flooded airplane on the ramp while you grind the starter forever (or at least 'till it overheats). I don't know how many times I've seen guys with an injected airplane who can't figure out why it won't start because they start it full rich and flood it and grind that poor starter. If it finally starts they blow white or even black smoke. I use this procedure on my carbureted C mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 8 hours ago, cctsurf said: On the whole, it saves a lot of wear and tear on the airplane and especially the starter. This is not the flooded procedure, it is the old procedure that keeps you from looking like a fool with a flooded airplane on the ramp while you grind the starter forever (or at least 'till it overheats). I don't know how many times I've seen guys with an injected airplane who can't figure out why it won't start because they start it full rich and flood it and grind that poor starter. If it finally starts they blow white or even black smoke. I use this procedure on my carbureted C mode. I'll take your word for it, I know of no one that starts full rich as a procedure, but it can be done in the winter. The flooded start procedure is no more kind to the starter. And it really only works if the engine is flooded. I have seen injected operators create needless issues during a hot start, but that's not what is being described by the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 In my early years as a Moony pilot I was always nervous about warm/hot starts, since I started using the method shown below I've never had a failed or flooded start.Cold start: throttle quarter, fuel pump one, mixture full rich for 6-8 seconds.Warm or hot start: throttle quarter, fuel pump on, mixture full rich 1-3 seconds. Quarter what? Quarter inch, quarter way in? With IO Lycoming engines if you firewall the mixture and throttle, the fuel will be dumped out if the lines, fuel pressure goes to zero.Doing your second method will result in stable starts, because fuel hasn’t had a chance to heat up and start vaporizing. It also standardizes starts, every hot start the engine is in the same starting state. Otherwise there is the quick 5 min fuel stop start, the 15 min fuel,bathroom start, the 30 min start....and so on. The quick 5 min start is the easiest and POH method works fine it. It’s the longer starts that seem difficult. Also my starts are much better after annual, clean spark plugs makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnisley Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 On 12/14/2017 at 4:56 AM, teejayevans said: Quarter what? Quarter inch, quarter way in? With IO Lycoming engines if you firewall the mixture and throttle, the fuel will be dumped out if the lines, fuel pressure goes to zero. Doing your second method will result in stable starts, because fuel hasn’t had a chance to heat up and start vaporizing. It also standardizes starts, every hot start the engine is in the same starting state. Otherwise there is the quick 5 min fuel stop start, the 15 min fuel,bathroom start, the 30 min start....and so on. The quick 5 min start is the easiest and POH method works fine it. It’s the longer starts that seem difficult. Also my starts are much better after annual, clean spark plugs makes a difference. I meant quarter open but probably more like 3/4-1 inch open, 1200 rpm?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted December 16, 2017 Report Share Posted December 16, 2017 Maybe 1/8”-1/4” open. Just crack it slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotshottt06 Posted December 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2017 Sounds like it comes down doing it more frequently and figuring out what works for your own bird. I have only had the plane about 9 months and it's my first plane so we're still getting to know each other haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66mooney66 Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 On 12/12/2017 at 3:29 PM, hotshottt06 said: Ok, finally gonna ask this question since I keep having issues. I have a '67 M20F Exec....and when I know I'm going to fly somewhere typically the next day or next couple days, I'll pull the plane from the hangar and taxi down to the fuel island. Upon the first start, it fires up no problem. When I am done fueling and I go to restart, I have been having one heck of a time getting it to start. I never have issues after a flight on a true "hot start" but after a quick taxi and shut down, the restart is a pain in my butt. I have tried my hot start procedure, and today I figured I'd try my initial start procedure, which was also a dud. Any suggestions? I would have your A&P check you valve clearance.. When the clearance is set to tight as the engine gets warm the clearance gets tighter which will make it harder to start. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 On 2017-12-13 at 3:15 PM, cctsurf said: On the whole, it saves a lot of wear and tear on the airplane and especially the starter. This is not the flooded procedure, it is the old procedure that keeps you from looking like a fool with a flooded airplane on the ramp while you grind the starter forever (or at least 'till it overheats). I don't know how many times I've seen guys with an injected airplane who can't figure out why it won't start because they start it full rich and flood it and grind that poor starter. If it finally starts they blow white or even black smoke. I use this procedure on my carbureted C mode. I’d be less worried about cooking the starter and battery, all that cranking has to be really tough on the camshaft and everything else in the engine that doesn’t have oil. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctsurf Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 3 hours ago, M20Doc said: I’d be less worried about cooking the starter and battery, all that cranking has to be really tough on the camshaft and everything else in the engine that doesn’t have oil. I can see that, however, if the engine has already been run that day, and is warm, it really should already be oiled. But, yes, if it hasn't received oiling, that would be bad. I've usually seen this problem with starting when the plane has been flown in for gas or people at a fly in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 hours ago, cctsurf said: I can see that, however, if the engine has already been run that day, and is warm, it really should already be oiled. But, yes, if it hasn't received oiling, that would be bad. I've usually seen this problem with starting when the plane has been flown in for gas or people at a fly in. Again, this post is about a cold engine, not a hot start. As stated, cold start and taxi to fuel farm. That could be 30 sec or a few minutes. Either way, the oil is not warm. Moreover, the very nature of the cam/lifter interaction is that the lifter is "wiping" the cam under pressure. Warm or cold, under the best case scenario, the starter turns the crank at ~140RPM. That provides no lubrication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnisley Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 On 12/16/2017 at 12:33 AM, jetdriven said: Maybe 1/8”-1/4” open. Just crack it slightly. Yep, it's probably more like 1/4" not 3/4 - 1" as I stated earlier, I never measured, I just know where it needs to be;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66mooney66 Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 I have a piper saratoga and a mooney.. both injected.. if I start my plane and taxi it a block for fuel I never prime to restart my plane.. mixture back and crank. once it fires I advance the mixture and lean from there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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