Jump to content

Should I get a Hartzell Top prop for my J?


Jeev

Recommended Posts

Hey All - 

Well  I sent my Mccauley off for a reseal since it was slinging a good amount of grease and the shop told me the blades are worn below the min diameter at the o-ring grooves .  My prop hub is in great shape with no issues so have a choice to buy two new blades and overhaul the prop hub for a total of about $9500 or get a new Hartzell top prop for around $10,300. I like the idea of getting a NEW prop but I see that the Hartzell weighs around 10lbs more.  I did a search and can’t find any recent PIREPS but have read some old ones saying you get around 3-6kts in cruise with no change in climb.  Anyone have recent experience or a PIREP?  It also seems that Hartzell has fixed the cracking spinner issue and it was never a real issue on the J right?

My Mccauley hub is the one with no ADs so I could recover some of the cost by selling that too.  What do you think?

Thank you for your help everyone.

Edited by Jeev
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

send to san antonio propeller before spending 10K.  shipping should also be cheaper since it will fit into a smaller box.

It’s at Ameritech now and I have had good dealings with them in the past, they will be returning my blades either way I go and have verified they are out of specs. I would most likely get the same result at San Antonio no?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How did these blades wear there? Did they show you the book spec? Did you verify their caliper with a measuring block? Try a different measuring instrument?  Honestly that’s the first time I’ve heard of that. 

Edited by jetdriven
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

How did these blades wear there? Did they show you the book spec? Did you verify their caliper with a measuring block? Try a different measuring instrument?  Honestly that’s the first time I’ve heard of that. 

Good to know thank you. I will get the exact numbers tomorrow and post them.  The prop is from 1982 and I overhauled it 7 years ago. They said the wear point is the groove that the o-ring sits in and with use it slowly wears the metal in the groove. Deeper investigation never hurts I’ll get back to you. 

Edited by Jeev
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cant for the life of me see how an o-ring can wear the aluminum out of the groove of a 5,000 hour prop.  I'd suspect an error of measurement. Seriously, the spec is a hard number, and they're reading it only out by .001", and a Harbor Freight digital caliper wont cut it, use a 1000$ device to measure that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a lot o dough on the line... definitely worth reviewing each measurement, techniques and instruments....

No calculus required!  :)

Probably helps to bring your best personality to not accidently appear to question their skills.

Whatever caused the wear will be a learning opportunity.   

Then check the price of other complete new props...

Two blades vs three... Hartzel/TopProp vs MT/composite

MS has a great Prop Guy around here, if you need some inside type info.

Best regards,

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Same story I was given about my McCauley prop.  It had survived 3 overhauls in 18 years, then I send it off to the prop shop and they condemned both blades, saying the o-rings have worn the grooves under spec.  In my case, the hub also had scoring in the cylinder they could have repaired for an extra $2500, and a pair of new blades was quoted as $6100, so it was a no-brainer for me to get a new Hartzell prop.  Going through my FBO the discounted cost was about $9500 for the new 2-blade Hartzell, but the lead time for a new prop was about 4 weeks.

Of course, that doesn't account for the prop getting damaged on shipping and having the shipping company, the prop shop and Hartzell dicking around for a while figuring out what to do.  In the end, I get a new prop but it's 8 weeks later and I'm still waiting.

All whining aside, check with your A&P to see if you can get a discount from the prop shop going through them.  Seemed like it saved about $1200 off the list price for me.  I don't know how much you could sell the old hub for, but that might help change the balance on deciding whether to go new or replace the blades.

Edited by jaylw314
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

Same story I was given about my McCauley prop.  It had survived 3 overhauls in 18 years, then I send it off to the prop shop and they condemned both blades, saying the o-rings have worn the grooves under spec.  In my case, the hub also had scoring in the cylinder they could have repaired for an extra $2500, and a pair of new blades was quoted as $6100, so it was a no-brainer for me to get a new Hartzell prop.  Going through my FBO the discounted cost was about $9500 for the new 2-blade Hartzell, but the lead time for a new prop was about 4 weeks.

Of course, that doesn't account for the prop getting damaged on shipping and having the shipping company, the prop shop and Hartzell dicking around for a while figuring out what to do.  In the end, I get a new prop but it's 8 weeks later and I'm still waiting.

All whining aside, check with your A&P to see if you can get a discount from the prop shop going through them.  Seemed like it saved about $1200 off the list price for me.  I don't know how much you could sell the old hub for, but that might help change the balance on deciding whether to go new or replace the blades.

Did you see a performance gain with the Top prop? Thanks 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

slightly off topic, I have spent the last week in a Screaming eagle with a Hartzel composite prop. That is a very impressive propellor. Smooth as glass and if anything, faster. Downside, the owner told me of a nick in the nickle leading edge that was multi AMU's to repair.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went throught that a few years ago and here is some thoughts: 

my mccauley was not "overhaul able". Ask if it can just be resealed instead. This is like meet new spec vs meet passing specs. 

Eventually , I resealed it and it worked great for many years. The only thing that bothered me was knowing that I had a prop that was not "overhaul able" . But no leak and again worked great. 

A few years later , I installed a new 2 blade top prop. To be honest , I did it for 3 small reasons: 

1) knowing my prop was not overhaul able 2) ramp appeal of the scimitar prop , 3) get rid of the yellow arc on my tach 

Cost was much lower than what you are quoting. It is heavier , but I also changed the starter to a lightweight so it was almost a wash from a Weigth standpoint 

Not happy with the prop initially as it let to a lots of vibrations at certain rpm 23-2400 range. 

These seem to be going away, either because I am used to it or more likely because the counterweights in the engine re find their equilibrium.my engine is passed TBO. 

Hope this helps . 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all for the responses I have an update.  I called the shop that has my prop and all they would say is that one blade is 5 thousands out of spec and the other is 7 thousands out, they told me it will not seal with these specs. At this point if I have them send the prop back without the repair I will have to pay them around $1000 for the labor they have in it and that eats up any savings I would get from another shop.  I found the Hartzell a little cheaper from a dealer on my field and the new MAC blades are the same price $6100 at all the shops I have called.  Since my hub is in great shape I have decided to do an overhaul with new blades.  That is the most economical solution for me if you can call $9000 economical :-(, my A&P gets a 10% discount from this shop that he is going to pass on to me. Even tough the Hartzell would have ramp appeal I don’t like the weight penalty with little to no performance gain.  If my hub was bad I would have definitely gone with the Hartzell due to cost.  

Hope this helps the next person who encounters this.  One mistake I made was to rush and order the blades before I got all my research done. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Once you get your prop and your plane back, we'd like to know which shop this is. 

Third post down.

@Jeev I too am going to keep the McCauley going for the weight savings.  My plane is already nose heavy no reason to put more weight up there. Mine was overhauled 500 hrs ago and new blades went on at that time. Hopefully, it will be uneventful when the time comes. Thanks for sharing!

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Cody Stallings said:

Wow!!!

Super High new Prop Quote!

Not supposed to make Christmas Bonus off of one transaction.

I can get that Propeller for much cheaper.

 

I also believe you should get a second opinion on your McCauley blades

Thanks Cody!  Yeah it seemed really high.  I asked about getting my prop back so I could sell it and recoup some $ and they said $10,300 is the exchange price!!!! I gave them my credit card to order the blades already but can back out.  Do you think $6100 for the blades is also high? What about $2300 for an overhaul?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Send the blades and hub in a box to Cody, and let him evaluate. Dont fall for round 2 of the prop shop scam.

 

11 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Amen. Crate and ship it to Cody. It is worth the time and expense.  

Jim

Don't forget the $1000 they say he owes them already. But it would appear to me likely he could eat that $1000 loss and still be ahead somewhere else.

And Jeev, be sure to tell us which shop it is when you are finished with them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Send the blades and hub in a box to Cody, and let him evaluate. Dont fall for round 2 of the prop shop scam.

I’m going to call Cody tomorrow.  Thank you all 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

$1,000 in labor? How could they rack up that much labor if they did what a Shop should do and check all the parts that wear first before digging deeper into it.

I’d send them a email in writing asking for a detailed explanation of expenses and then a credit card to get it out. If the reason they states, fine if it’s decided after talking to a 2nd opinion that they were screwing you out of a majority of the 1amu then call your credit card company and dispute it. They will most likely side with you, and reverse the entire charge.

I hate it when company’s hold your parts hostage. They better have a explicit terms and conditions policy to back up holding your prop hostage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, aaronk25 said:

$1,000 in labor? How could they rack up that much labor if they did what a Shop should do and check all the parts that wear first before digging deeper into it.

I’d send them a email in writing asking for a detailed explanation of expenses and then a credit card to get it out. If the reason they states, fine if it’s decided after talking to a 2nd opinion that they were screwing you out of a majority of the 1amu then call your credit card company and dispute it. They will most likely side with you, and reverse the entire charge.

I hate it when company’s hold your parts hostage. They better have a explicit terms and conditions policy to back up holding your prop hostage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

To be fair they are not holding my prop hostage yet.  I will call them I’m the morning see if they do the right thing.  I don’t want to put negitive info on the web unless it’s justified.  I will definitely post an update tomorrow with the exact details. Thank you for the advise and yes everything will be in a credit card.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.