Got ramp checked

[Dream to fly]

I got ramp checked and lucky for me I wasn't actually going to fly I was only filling the tanks.  I have been stupid busy selling my home building and rebuilding my tow truck and life in general getting in the way of flying.  So today I decided to check the plane and clear my head and remembered I needed to fill the tanks.  so I pulled the Gypsy out of the hanger and taxied to the fuel station.  A guy walks over while I am filling and starts a BS conversation  next thing I know I am being ramp checked.  Come to find out I am exactly 1 month over my Biannual and my medical is expired.  I'm at a loss and really don't know what to do.  I want it right but now am not sure how to fix this.  anyone been thru this before???  I thought the medical third class was a non issue.  The Biannual is my bad and have an appointment with my instructor for Saturday.   Should I be worried or is this a slap on the wrist type of scare.   I also did not let go of my ticket I let him copy the info with me holding it the whole time.

[M016576]

4 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

I got ramp checked and lucky for me I wasn't actually going to fly I was only filling the tanks.  I have been stupid busy selling my home building and rebuilding my tow truck and life in general getting in the way of flying.  So today I decided to check the plane and clear my head and remembered I needed to fill the tanks.  so I pulled the Gypsy out of the hanger and taxied to the fuel station.  A guy walks over while I am filling and starts a BS conversation  next thing I know I am being ramp checked.  Come to find out I am exactly 1 month over my Biannual and my medical is expired.  I'm at a loss and really don't know what to do.  I want it right but now am not sure how to fix this.  anyone been thru this before???  I thought the medical third class was a non issue.  The Biannual is my bad and have an appointment with my instructor for Saturday.   Should I be worried or is this a slap on the wrist type of scare.   I also did not let go of my ticket I let him copy the info with me holding it the whole time.

Did you tell him you didn’t have an intention to fly?  If you’re towing a personal aircraft (not running the motor) in a non-movement area, with no intention to fly- I’m pretty sure you don’t need a biennial or a valid medical.  I could be wrong though- I don’t have the regs sitting in front of me.  Once you’re sitting behind the controls and taxing through movement areas, I think that’s when you need to be in currency.

[Bartman]

Yikes !

You did not fly today, but if it happened to me I would think they will look for evidence of me flying with expired medical or flight review. I would expect them to formally request my logs and look for evidence of me using the ATC system.  Hope it all works out well and you just get a good scare and that's it.

[Dream to fly]

Did you tell him you didn’t have an intention to fly?  If you’re towing a personal aircraft (not running the motor) in a non-movement area, with no intention to fly- I’m pretty sure you don’t need a biennial or a valid medical.  I could be wrong though- I don’t have the regs sitting in front of me.  Once you’re sitting behind the controls and taxing through movement areas, I think that’s when you need to be in currency.

That's what i did. I actually taxied the aircraft across the field. I told him exactly what. I Was doing.

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[Andy95W]

The dividing line for most FAA definitions is aircraft movement for the purpose of flight, so in your case neither a medical nor flight currency would be required.  As an example, an A&P is permitted to taxi an airplane without a medical and without showing currency, because the license had the requisite training to enable him to do so.  Only moving the aircraft for the purpose of flight requires recency of experience or a Flight Review.

The question would be whether or not the fed believed that you were truly just taxiing to get fuel, but the burden of proof should be on him, not you.  By any chance do you participate in the AOPA legal services plan?  You may want to give them a call regardless, if you're a member.

[Dream to fly]

The dividing line for most FAA definitions is aircraft movement for the purpose of flight, so in your case neither a medical nor flight currency would be required.  As an example, an A&P is permitted to taxi an airplane without a medical and without showing currency, because the license had the requisite training to enable him to do so.  Only moving the aircraft for the purpose of flight requires recency of experience or a Flight Review.
The question would be whether or not the fed believed that you were truly just taxiing to get fuel, but the burden of proof should be on him, not you.  By any chance do you participate in the AOPA legal services plan?  You may want to give them a call regardless, if you're a member.

I am. I never even thought about calling them. I will do that in the morning. I didn't even have headsets with me. I only had my license and the planes papers. No log books no nothing. I'm hoping this is a once in a lifetime mistake. My wife is just as pissed. I'm always about details but i honestly forgot to check my credentials this past year. I totally spaced it out with life getting in the way. Not making excuses but i honestly forgot


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[peevee]

You should be buying lotto tickets, you have all the luck.

[toto]

Might also be worth filing an ASRS form.

[N201MKTurbo]

The last time I had a random interaction with an FAA man it was at the gas pumps too. 

He checked my license and medical. No issues. He was there to give a remedial check ride for someone who had a violation of some sort. That pilot never showed up and the FAA man was pissed. He just ramp checked me to pass the time.

 

[MooneyBob]

49 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

I got ramp checked and lucky for me I wasn't actually going to fly I was only filling the tanks.  I have been stupid busy selling my home building and rebuilding my tow truck and life in general getting in the way of flying.  So today I decided to check the plane and clear my head and remembered I needed to fill the tanks.  so I pulled the Gypsy out of the hanger and taxied to the fuel station.  A guy walks over while I am filling and starts a BS conversation  next thing I know I am being ramp checked.  Come to find out I am exactly 1 month over my Biannual and my medical is expired.  I'm at a loss and really don't know what to do.  I want it right but now am not sure how to fix this.  anyone been thru this before???  I thought the medical third class was a non issue.  The Biannual is my bad and have an appointment with my instructor for Saturday.   Should I be worried or is this a slap on the wrist type of scare.   I also did not let go of my ticket I let him copy the info with me holding it the whole time.

How did he know you are late with your biannual? Did he ask for the logbook? Do you carry your logbook with you all the times? Is it required?

[Dream to fly]

How did he know you are late with your biannual? Did he ask for the logbook? Do you carry your logbook with you all the times? Is it required?

My license said issued October 2015 and he asked had i gotten a review and without thinking answered no honestly and then the questions started. I'm gonna call AOPA and find out what i should do. I'm sure others have done this too. I wasn't flying and i wasn't endangering anyone. It's paperwork. I'm just more pissed that i allowed myself to get snagged.

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[tigers2007]

My license said issued October 2015 and he asked had i gotten a review and without thinking answered no honestly and then the questions started. I'm gonna call AOPA and find out what i should do. I'm sure others have done this too. I wasn't flying and i wasn't endangering anyone. It's paperwork. I'm just more pissed that i allowed myself to get snagged.

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I'm curious how this would have ended if you complied with his initial request to see the medical and pilot certificates (from the grip of your hand) but did not speak a word thereafter. A similar technique has saved friends of mine from serious consequences in other situations...

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[thinwing]

Call an aviation Atty asap...sorry but if he decides to violate you ,he could make the case of your intent...yes maintance can simply taxi,but you do not have an A and P to cover that...good luck

[toto]

3 minutes ago, thinwing said:

Call an aviation Atty asap...sorry but if he decides to violate you ,he could make the case of your intent...yes maintance can simply taxi,but you do not have an A and P to cover that...good luck

PPS will put him in touch with a local attorney at AOPA's cost.  (After a brief initial call with an AOPA staff attorney.)

[neilpilot]

You plan on meeting an instructor this Saturday for a flight check?  Will you have a valid medical by then?

[N9201A]

“without thinking answered no honestly and then the questions started.”

A ramp check is like a traffic stop. The cop/inspector has a reason for the question, s/he’s not being social. NEVER start answering questions without thinking.  “I’m sure the information you need is in my logbooks, which are not with me.  Can I get back to you?” is never a bad response. Then stick with it, it’s not a memory test and anything you say WILL be used against you, so why play the game? Too bad he caught you off guard. 

“I'm gonna call AOPA and find out what i should do.”

Talk to an AOPA Pilot Protection panel counsel, they’ll have someone in your area, hopefully someone who knows the FSDO and maybe even has experience with the inspector. 

“I'm sure others have done this too.” 

Of course...I know a guy who confessed to his friend he was “out of annual, too” after a ramp check.  Thanks to his “friend” repeating the admission, his 90-day suspension was bumped to a one-year one. So be careful what you share in a public forum, there are some FAA inspectors who read MS too.  And “what about Bob” isn’t a defense...save it for certain news networks and politicians.  

“I wasn't flying and i wasn't endangering anyone. It's paperwork.”

This is like “it’s 75 in a 60, big deal” or “it’s  a stupid stop sign and no one was around.”  Anyone who’s written a traffic ticket, please chime in on your take on that reaction from a violator...but in my experience, that’s exactly the WRONG mindset to demonstrate to any regulator...including any reading MS.  

I’d suggest getting good advice, following it without sharing any unhelpful facts publicly, and demonstrating a pro-compliance mindset, including preventing future slips (calendaring key dates, working to stay current through WINGS program, etc.).  You’ve (inadvertently perhaps, but still) “fessed up,” now is the time to take responsibility, not minimize (even if it’s what you really think), and demonstrate that you’ve learned and the lapse you had will not reoccur. 

Sorry you got tagged but odds are - just like driving - we will all get a “ticket,” a ramp check or the dreaded “call this number” radio call if we fly enough. Having thought through how to respond in advance - just like an engine out - reduces the stress and facilitated crisp execution when it occurs. 

Good luck, hope to read about a positive outcome.

[RLCarter]

Anyone can taxi an aircraft, A&P/IA's do it all the time. Did he give you any type of citation ? Get your BFR and medical taken care of and don't worry about it. Why does everyone freak out with the FAA? 

[M016576]

Just for the sake of those reading, since multiple posters have made this error....

 

its Biennial (as in, every other year). 

Not Biannual (Twice a year)

 

... just sayin’...

[Marauder]

Just for the sake of those reading, since multiple posters have made this error....
 
its Biennial (as in, every other year). 
Not Biannual (Twice a year)
 
... just sayin’...

I think they are no longer called “bi” anything. I was told at my last review they are now called “Flight Reviews”.


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[jetdriven]

53 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

Anyone can taxi an aircraft, A&P/IA's do it all the time. Did he give you any type of citation ? Get your BFR and medical taken care of and don't worry about it. Why does everyone freak out with the FAA? 

The fed guy saved him from a future violation. AFAIK you can not only not even be a pilot,but You can also taxi an airplane while drinking beer, so long as it’s not for  the intention of flight. 

It also really aggravates the FAA inspectors when a private pilot holds the certificate and makes them copy the info while squinting and leaning over to read it. Professional pilots don’t do this. I’ve been ramp checked a dozen times both part 91 and 121 and I hand him my certificate and medical, he writes the info down and hands it back. This is all hangar talk, but handing the inspector your certificate is in no way considered “surrendering” it. That is a formal process.

One more thing. All you are required to produce is AROW, license and medical. And a student pilot must carry his logbook on an XC. Logbooks, maintenance records, etc all that often isn’t even required to exist and if they are turned over nonchalantly it can often turn into a fishing expedition.  If they ask for more than what’s required to demonstrate currency, or the last annual entry, they can meet with me at my lawyer’s office and we can all go over them together. Remember, it’s only required upon reasonable request byhe administrator or their designee. Rant off. 

 

[Marauder]

Yep, he was right... section 1.5

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-98C.pdf


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[Aviationinfo]

Look, don't overthink this.  The FAA has recently adopted new policies on enforcement designed to more accurately fit the punishment to the crime.   It's all based on your attitude, experience, and ratings, and most importantly  how you show them you've learned from the situation.   I know how ridiculous and unbelievable this must sound to some, but I've seen it put into practice with two friends.  One is an ATP, the other a PP.   (They hold ATPs to a much higher standard than PPs.)

DO talk to the AOPA, and DO cooperate IF you are contacted by the FSDO.   The AOPA knows how to handle this.  There are far more serious problems than yours to have with the FAA, and my guess is at most, they will simply ask you to complete and document some training to ensure some learning has occurred.   If that!   Relax.  And be thankful this didn't happen to you a long time ago before this new policy took effect.

[kpaul]

5 hours ago, Marauder said:

Yep, he was right... section 1.5

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-98C.pdf


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So if I read that correctly there is no longer a Flight Review requirement, it is now only "encouraged"?

The FAA no longer uses the term Biennial Flight Review. This term implied that pilots only needed currency training once every 24 calendar-months. The FAA encourages currency training as often as appropriate to a pilot’s individual needs. Consequently, the FAA now uses the term Flight Review.

Pilots should design a currency program tailored to their individual operating environments and needs. In some cases, pilots may integrate currency criteria with normal operations to reduce the need for separate currency flights. For example, pilots could incorporate additional takeoffs and landings or specialized takeoffs and landings such as short or soft field into a previously-scheduled flight.

 

[Guest]

The FAA obviously has far too many inspectors, Transport Canada got out of the ramp check business years ago due to staffing.

For instrument rated pilots does your Instrument check ride qualify as the biennial?

Clarence

Edited November 29, 2017 by M20Doc

[Danb]

9 hours ago, Bartman said:

Yikes !

You did not fly today, but if it happened to me I would think they will look for evidence of me flying with expired medical or flight review. I would expect them to formally request my logs and look for evidence of me using the ATC system.  Hope it all works out well and you just get a good scare and that's it.

Jeez, I know of a mechanic who has/had nonpilots taxi planes for service, no license ?