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Complete panel do-over


BillBarton

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In the interest of not repeating a subject worn thin, I searched this forum for "custom panel" and associated tags and didn't really find what I was looking for. I have a wonderful straight flier whose panel can only be described as a 1964 time capsule. If I wanted to execute a complete do-over can anyone recommend a particular shop that could start with a new blank panel and build up/install the custom panel in my airplane?

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In the interest of not repeating a subject worn thin, I searched this forum for "custom panel" and associated tags and didn't really find what I was looking for. I have a wonderful straight flier whose panel can only be described as a 1964 time capsule. If I wanted to execute a complete do-over can anyone recommend a particular shop that could start with a new blank panel and build up/install the custom panel in my airplane?


Bill - I have been through a complete panel makeover. You’ll want to make decisions beforehand of what you want in the panel before you go to the shop. Depending on your model, you may or may not be able to lay it out as you want. You’ll also want to find a shop who has panel cutting machine.

PM with your contact information and I can tell you my experience.

Here is my before and after.

8c859f2dfa424ee3e482be138c924bc6.jpg

9be1648d5a66933aa2e92da7f4ecadf0.jpg


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To echo what @Marauder said, regardless of the shop you choose, you need to have a plan first. This can range from... 

Getting the current panel rearranged to a 6 pack -or- going full glass/modern and removing the vacuum system, etc.

Regardless, you need to have a very specific plan of what you want done, and then take it to a shop who can do it.

Getting a new panel cut is pretty easy and you can have the shop do it, or get another metal shop to cut it out, or order on online... the link is around here somewhere. 

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Here was my 15 step algorithm with upgrading my “dated” panel a couple years ago with a clean sheet install:

1. Educate myself on the possible components I have to choose from and how they would integrate with each other.

2. Seek lots of input from experienced pilots on what I should get (including on Mooneyspace) based on my needs, desires, and evolving state of the art.

3. Decide what I want.

4. Calculate cost (2x the hardware list price is a rough ballpark figure)

5. Gasp in horror. Readjust expectations.

6. Repeat steps 1-4 until step 5 no longer necessary.

7. Use software to lay out exactly what I want  (just PowerPoint for a simpleton like me, but obviously better options out there for engineering types).  For this kinda money, you want to get every switch and control exactly where you want it.

8. Get feedback from others on my plan. Adjust accordingly.

9. Solicit opinions about all the shops in my region. Make a list of all the ones I  might work with.

10. Solicit quotes from shops on the short list. Gasp at a spread of >20amu among quotes.

11. Visit the two cheapest shops and try to get to know the folks. Decide who I want to use. Wait impatiently until they have time for the job.

12. Visit shop periodically during long install process. Communicate regarding problems executing my meticulous but unrealistic plan. Readjust expectations. Change plan as needed.

13. Test fly plane when ready with shop owner on board. Make list of squawks - inevitable but hopefully minor to fix.

14 Pay a ton of money. Take plane home.

15. Debug minor issues over months, making return visits to fix as necessary. 

 

Altogether it was a 1 year process for me, with the 1st 6 months spent just deciding on components and layout before ever talking to a shop.

Gotta know exactly what you want first.

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^This

My algorithm was pretty much the same with one very significant difference.  Between steps 6 and 7 I started collecting the components. I bought some on Barnstormers, some on Black Friday sales, some when rebates were available, and some from @Alan Fox but critically didn't pay retail for any of the components.  This then hurt me a bit when I was looking for installers. Most shops plan to make money off the sale of the parts as well. But I finally found a shop that was willing to take on the job just for the installation. I'm sure that in the end this approach saved me upwards of $10K on the whole job. It also meant that I'd spread out the pain into smaller chunks over the course of many months while I shopped for the parts and pieces.

No pictures... :lol: but I'm very happy with the result.

BTW... I was back in the avionics shop yesterday to add AOA to my Aspen. Again, purchased during Aspen's 50% off sale on AOA and SV.

Retail is for Suckers

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Before and after pics of my old M20E plus a short video from last week.  This was a nearly complete new panel 5 years ago. I'm happy to recommend Twin Lakes Avionics, Mocksville NC who made several layouts and gave me several options. They cut and silkscreen the panel and modified the panel mounts as necessary to give me a flat panel. 

IMG_20171029_131906835_HDR[1].jpg

100_2663.JPG

VID_20171121_102848412[1].mp4

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1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Retail is for Suckers

Agree fully, though as a newb I was too intimidated at the time to delve deep into the used avionics market.    It is worth noting that shops that are dealers for Garmin etc. can pay thousands less for the hardware than what you would pay if obtained directly and take the huge markup to retail just for ordering it and taking it out of the box.  What ultimately made the price difference at the shop I ultimately used was that they were willing to discount the hardware steeply relative to the retail price.  In addition, they seemed to bill fewer hours for each item than they would if that item was retrofitted in isolation, because I was basically tearing out the whole panel and starting over - perhaps a  sign of a fair and reasonable shop.  

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Just now, DXB said:

Agree fully, though as a newb I was too intimidated at the time to delve too deep into the used avionics market.    It is worth noting that shops that are dealers for Garmin etc.  can pay thousands less for the hardware than what you would pay if obtained directly and take the huge markup to retail just for ordering it and taking it out of the box.  What ultimately made the price difference at the shop I ultimately used was that they were willing to discount the hardware steeply relative to the retail price.  In addition, they seemed to bill fewer hours for each item than they would if that item was retrofitted that unit in isolation, because I was basically tearing out the whole panel and starting over - perhaps a  sign of a fair and reasonable shop.  

I’ve noticed if you buy used avionics that are not in demand you can collect items for next to nothing if you spend the time.  However, the savings on new or next to new items is much lower.  Many shops will discount 12-14 percent off retail (read they are still making money off the equipment sale) and provide fair install costs.  If you buy from a separate retailer (who is making a living selling the items) you can’t expect the shop to install it for the same amount.  It also goes against some of the stc install requirements to install used equipment that has not been back to the factory. 

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^This
My algorithm was pretty much the same with one very significant difference.  Between steps 6 and 7 I started collecting the components. I bought some on Barnstormers, some on Black Friday sales, some when rebates were available, and some from [mention=7207]Alan Fox[/mention] but critically didn't pay retail for any of the components.  This then hurt me a bit when I was looking for installers. Most shops plan to make money off the sale of the parts as well. But I finally found a shop that was willing to take on the job just for the installation. I'm sure that in the end this approach saved me upwards of $10K on the whole job. It also meant that I'd spread out the pain into smaller chunks over the course of many months while I shopped for the parts and pieces.
No pictures... :lol: but I'm very happy with the result.
BTW... I was back in the avionics shop yesterday to add AOA to my Aspen. Again, purchased during Aspen's 50% off sale on AOA and SV.
Retail is for Suckers

I totally agree with this post and if anyone is in the PNW looking for upgrade this way Barry Foote of Av-Com will travel to your plane and install equipment you have bought elsewhere. Top notch guy. He’s going to do some more upgrades on my plane come January. And offers 10% off his labor if you are a FATPNW premium member.


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13 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Before and after pics of my old M20E plus a short video from last week.  This was a nearly complete new panel 5 years ago. I'm happy to recommend Twin Lakes Avionics, Mocksville NC who made several layouts and gave me several options. They cut and silkscreen the panel and modified the panel mounts as necessary to give me a flat panel. 

IMG_20171029_131906835_HDR[1].jpg

100_2663.JPG

VID_20171121_102848412[1].mp4

If that's the shop by Winston Salem , they were pretty impressive , and the woman running it very knowledgeable...

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10 hours ago, Alan Fox said:

If that's the shop by Winston Salem , they were pretty impressive , and the woman running it very knowledgeable...

Alan, they are near W/S at Twin Lakes Airport, 8A7. I agree that Gwen is very efficient. Robbie Greer, the owner, is very knowledgeable. If he were on a larger field he have a lot of heavy aircraft business, 8A7 is under 3000' and the runway is rough. 

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8 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

I stopped in to try to buy last month...

I would have thought that Robbie would be willing to shed some of his trade in stuff. In my case I sold most of the avionics that he pulled from my plane on Ebay for more than he could allow me.

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17 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

I would have thought that Robbie would be willing to shed some of his trade in stuff. In my case I sold most of the avionics that he pulled from my plane on Ebay for more than he could allow me.

You haven't seen the prices Alan tries to buy for Bob...

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Just returned from a downrange trip. Thank-you all, that information is priceless.

DXB - I laughed out loud going through your 15 steps. That hasn't happened in a long time.

I am already working on the basic design. Trying to go simple. I am completely surrounded by magic at my day job and frankly when I get in my own time machine I don't care if I talk to anyone. Actually prefer not to. 

I want simple and reliable. I'll post progress as it happens.

Thank-you again

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