Skates97 Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Yesterday I flew around the pattern to see if the RPM sensor issue was fixed on my new install of an EDM 830 which it appears is fixed. However a new issue also came up that I wanted to get more information on before posting. While flying the pattern the voltage was low, between 10.5-11.4. I came out to check on some things this morning. With the master switch on I only get 8.8v on the VR BAT terminal, 7.1v on the ARM terminal, and 6.2v on the FLD terminal. Also new this morning which wasn't happening yesterday with the engine running is that the amp meter pegs at - 60 and then the 50 amp Gen CB pops. Also new is a whining in the overhead speaker which was never there before. No whining in the headphones. Is this a short that needs to be chased down or was my VR dying and finally gave up the ghost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 direct short somewhere, my guess is generator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Actually may have found it. Mechanic friend saw my hangar open and stopped by. Told him what it was doing and he looked around. The contact on the left was stuck closed. He popped it back open and when I turned the master back on it was not drawing amps on the ammeter anymore. Closing it pegs it to - 60 and opening it goes back to normal. He thinks it is the VR and looks like a quick trip around the corner to Aircraftspruce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Just now, Skates97 said: Actually may have found it. Mechanic friend saw my hangar open and stopped by. Told him what it was doing and he looked around. The contact on the left was stuck closed. He popped it back open and when I turned the master back on it was not drawing amps on the ammeter anymore. Closing it pegs it to - 60 and opening it goes back to normal. He thinks it is the VR and looks like a quick trip around the corner to Aircraftspruce. good deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 I would get a Zeftronics VR. Electronic vs. mechanical. It made a world of difference in radio noise with mine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Just now, kerry said: I would get a Zeftronics VR. Electronic vs. mechanical. It made a world of difference in radio noise with mine. +1 for Zeftronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gitmo234 Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Similar happened in my Cessna back in the day. Ended up flying no radio from South Carolina to PA. zeftronics solid state VR worked magic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Already picked up the Zeftronics G1500N, direct replacement for the Delco #1119224 listed in my manual and back at the hangar. One of the benefits of having a hangar a mile away from Aircraftspruce. Hopefully this fixes the problem. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 I can't say enough good about the Zephtronics I bought. About 5 years ago I had two cases when the "overvoltage" light came on. Both times it re-set. I was going on a long cross-country and didn't want to get stranded with a bad VR, so I went to Spruce and bought the Zephtronics. I put it in the baggage compartment. It's still there. It has done a remarkable job of preventing an over-voltage recurrence without ever being installed! Money well spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Problem partially solved. The Zeftronics is installed and the ammeter no longer pegs -60 and the Generator CB doesn't pop anymore. However, pulled it out of the hangar to start it up and the 830 still shows that it is not charging so there is something else wrong. Ammeter sits right at zero and the 830 only shows 10.6 volts and if I turn on the pitot heat or the rotating beacon it drops. I thought I read in another thread here about charging issues that with the master on and the engine off that there should be voltage at the field terminal on the VR and at the generator? When my master is on but the engine isn't running I have close to 12v reading at the BAT terminal on the VR but no power reading from either of the other two terminals on the VR. I don't know if it is related to the installation of the 830 and I hesitate to go there because it could just be a coincidence. I had no way of knowing voltage prior to the installation, just the stock ammeter which would show a slightly charging most of the time. However, if it was not charging before I should have had a dead battery a long time ago. I'll have to call the shop Monday and have them take a look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 22 minutes ago, Skates97 said: .... However, pulled it out of the hangar to start it up and the 830 still shows that it is not charging so there is something else wrong. Try flashing the field. It won't hurt and it may well fix your problem. Takes 5 minutes max. Don't laugh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 53 minutes ago, Mooneymite said: Try flashing the field. It won't hurt and it may well fix your problem. Takes 5 minutes max. Don't laugh.... The Zeftronics paperwork has the steps to flash the field. 1. With the engine off, disconnect the VR. 2. Ground the Field and turn on the switch 3. At the Regulator touch and hold (for 1-3 seconds) the removed BAT wire to the ARM wire three to five times. May give this a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, Skates97 said: The Zeftronics paperwork has the steps to flash the field. 1. With the engine off, disconnect the VR. 2. Ground the Field and turn on the switch 3. At the Regulator touch and hold (for 1-3 seconds) the removed BAT wire to the ARM wire three to five times. May give this a try. That's it. Since generators have gone the way of the dodo bird, people have forgotten the old tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) Pull the brush cover off the generator and check the brushes and brush leads. The regulator field circuit is pulled to ground by the regulator, no power required to make it run like an alternator. Clarence Edited November 26, 2017 by M20Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Gravel Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Oldguy said: +1 for Zeftronics. Me too for the Zeftronics. Also got a Plane Power alternator kit to replace the generator later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 Just for the record, you flash the Armature NOT the Field Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 And charge your battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gitmo234 Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 When this happened I had to get an overhauled generator as well. Something about the VR being reset by an A&P and then popping again, it didnt like. The first sign was the radio sounding like crap. I landed and an A&P found the voltage regulator was stuck. He fixed it and it worked fine. Flew some more and it started happening again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted November 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 2 hours ago, RLCarter said: Just for the record, you flash the Armature NOT the Field Correct, ground the Field and flash the ARM. 1 hour ago, Yetti said: And charge your battery. It has enough of a charge to start right up. Tried flashing it, followed all the directions, started up and still not charging. That's the extent of my troubleshooting and what I am going to do. Will call the shop that did the install Monday morning and have them look at it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 If you do decide to OH your generator I would suggest you find a local electric motor repair shop. I remember paying around $60 to OH mine not to long ago. If you get an OH'd unit from aircraft spruce it will set you back $300. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 +1 On The zeftronics... I can see the sticks and stones and springs in that old delco thing... good luck with that. look into getting a reman'd generator from Spruce if the one you have is toast... 0.2 amu ? (No inflation number...) This was the way of my old M20C... Best regards, -a- I see Kerry got a better number than my no inflation one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gitmo234 Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, kerry said: If you do decide to OH your generator I would suggest you find a local electric motor repair shop. I remember paying around $60 to OH mine not to long ago. If you get an OH'd unit from aircraft spruce it will set you back $300. An A&P suggested the same to me, in the "I cant condone it, but if you walk out with this part, that's up to you" sorta way. I paid like $400 for my overhauled generator Edited November 26, 2017 by gitmo234 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Current price from Aircraft Spruce is $308 for the Delco 1101915 that is in my plane, however they don't have it in stock. However I am hoping I don't have to buy one, we'll see. Hopefully they can get to it tomorrow or Tuesday. The more I think about the way the plane has behaved over the last few months the more I think that the output from the generator is slowly decreasing, it is just that now I can see exactly what it is where before with no volt meter I had no idea, just the ammeter that would show a slight charge if the RPM's were high enough. At 1,100-1,200 rpm it would show no charging or slight discharge but when running up to 1,700+ it would show a very slight charge. This is inline with what I saw on my test flights around the pattern. It is not that it wasn't providing any charge, it just is not enough to keep up. When RPM's increase, it shows higher power but it never gets above 12 volts. ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Brushes wear out. Properly charge your battery Your tractor needs the generator rebuilt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIREMATT Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 My 1967 C generator was giving me similar intermittent problems even with the new VR. The Plane Power Alternatir conversion has been a cure for most problems. Battery doesn't run down doing night landings at low RPM on the ground and in the pattern, radio static is gone, landing light on for safety during the day doesn't kill the battery inbound to land, and avionics don't run down the battery on long taxi In day or night. I'd highly recommend the $300-400 generator replacement cost be invested in the alternator conversion. My $.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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