gitmo234 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Candy man said: Quick question. I am am also a VFR pilot working on my instrument, when I fly vfr trips I always try and get flight following. I think they're fantastic and have a,ways been helpful. What's the reason you seemed hesitant to use them, or did misunderstand? I’ve had some terrible luck with flight following. 100% of the time I’ve been handed off incorrectly or forgotten about all together. Also recently all of my flying has been near or in the DC FRZ which required contact with ATC anyway. this time I decided and it helped. After I was back up in the air later my streak continued. I was handed of to the wrong center but corrected it. On a brighter note I was cleared through bravo both times without asking. Ive used flight following on long cross countries, but always ended up dropping it once it got messed up. Probably just bad luck but I’ll keep at it Edited November 23, 2017 by gitmo234 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Not a big fan of FF, both due to ATC shenanigans and just the pain of having to listen for my tail number. I’d rather yak with my pax. I’ve gone over the top VFR lots of times, always with clear conditions at my destination and VFR conditions below. My thinking is in th event of an emergency I’ll keep the shiny side up. Once I pop out of the clouds it will be the same as if the emergency started while below. Actually better, since with luck I’ll have the wit to point myself at an airport on the way down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXB Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 The handful of long vfr over the top legs I've finished have been the most harrowing flying I've ever done. I was lucky to have a good instrument-rated mentor on board for the first one I did. The most helpful and relevant advice was to be very flexible on the flight plan and continuously adjust the route to keep the ground in sight somewhere at the periphery of the route. There should always be a clear out. In once case I flew a few hundred extra miles just to achieve this, and that's when I started to really feel the absurdity of flying without the instrument ticket in certain conditions. I'm finally making some good progress in that direction. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 42 minutes ago, gitmo234 said: I’ve had some terrible luck with flight following. 100% of the time I’ve been handed off incorrectly or forgotten about all together. Also recently all of my flying has been near or in the DC FRZ which required contact with ATC anyway. this time I decided and it helped. After I was back up in the air later my streak continued. I was handed of to the wrong center but corrected it. On a brighter note I was cleared through bravo both times without asking. Ive used flight following on long cross countries, but always ended up dropping it once it got messed up. Probably just bad luck but I’ll keep at it Very sadly, I've been having bad experiences just by filing VFR flight plans for trips. If I have a late departure for whatever reason, it is likely going to turn into a problem. In the last instance I updated my late departure time with FS radio but it somehow got lost in the system and I had to make some phone calls after arrival. It's not a huge thing, but it does get annoying when it happens multiple times. Similarly, being able to activate or close plans via text/website is nice, but sometimes it get clunky at just the wrong time. I like that it's getting more streamlined, but I wish it were a bit smoother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Gitmo, You have done well... More on the discussion part, than the earlier decision part... I applaud you for discussing this openly. I have been the King CB when it came to airplane costs... but never found any value to have a low number of oil on the stick... If a quart is going away on any flight I was on, it was a lot. One quart per ten hours or so. Is normal-ish... If you are exceeding one in eight hours... things are changing on the fast side. Oil will be showing up on plugs and coming out the exhaust pipe.... Find what is leaking and get on it. Thanks for sharing. Sorry for the less than political correctness.... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gitmo234 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, carusoam said: Gitmo, You have done well... More on the discussion part, than the earlier decision part... I applaud you for discussing this openly. I have been the King CB when it came to airplane costs... but never found any value to have a low number of oil on the stick... If a quart is going away on any flight I was on, it was a lot. One quart per ten hours or so. Is normal-ish... If you are exceeding one in eight hours... things are changing on the fast side. Oil will be showing up on plugs and coming out the exhaust pipe.... Find what is leaking and get on it. Thanks for sharing. Sorry for the less than political correctness.... Best regards, -a- Thanks! Oddly enough, this is pretty light. Pilots being pilots. The mooney specific groups tend to be more receptive. This is productive, there are a handful of pilot groups and pages where a post like this would re-ignite the Salem witch trials. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candy man Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 2 hours ago, EricJ said: Very sadly, I've been having bad experiences just by filing VFR flight plans for trips. If I have a late departure for whatever reason, it is likely going to turn into a problem. In the last instance I updated my late departure time with FS radio but it somehow got lost in the system and I had to make some phone calls after arrival. It's not a huge thing, but it does get annoying when it happens multiple times. Similarly, being able to activate or close plans via text/website is nice, but sometimes it get clunky at just the wrong time. I like that it's getting more streamlined, but I wish it were a bit smoother. I've been using FF to open and even close VFR flight plans. I do it right after runup, and I love the fact that I'm even reminded to close the flight plan. I always used to worry about opening the flight plan in the air while dealing with Bravo or Charlie departure, or leaving Flight following. In my opinion it's never been easier. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Thanks! Oddly enough, this is pretty light. Pilots being pilots. The mooney specific groups tend to be more receptive. This is productive, there are a handful of pilot groups and pages where a post like this would re-ignite the Salem witch trials. Just so you don’t take it too lightly. BTW - I have a friend who just got his PP and has some strange affinity for flying over cloud decks. I’m waiting for his self proclamation of entering the “Stupid Pilot Club”. Get that instrument rating!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Tx_Aggie said: when you hear that guy trying to find a hole in the clouds while your autopilot is capturing and holding the glideslope to the runway 5 miles out, you'll be able to chuckle to yourself thinking "dude, go get your instrument rating." Yep... I think it was about a year ago as I was crossing over Austin on my way to a landing at home in San Marcos. There was a solid cloud deck at 4000 ft. and it was about 2000 ft thick. ATC calls out traffic to me, a 172 searching for a hole. I responded that I had the traffic in sight and wished him well at finding that hole. As I descended through the layer to an uneventful visual approach into San Marcos, I couldn't help but worry just a bit about the poor guy stuck on top. As soon as I'd landed and taxied to parking, I switched back to Austin Approach to monitor the situation. It was good to hear when he did find a small hole, got down, and then scud ran home to put the plane away and probably change his shorts. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gitmo234 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, Marauder said: Just so you don’t take it too lightly. BTW - I have a friend who just got his PP and has some strange affinity for flying over cloud decks. I’m waiting for his self proclamation of entering the “Stupid Pilot Club”. Get that instrument rating! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro It’s great until something comes up. Only takes once. My “once” was yesterday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 I think I filed two VFR flight plans as a student pilot, and none since. But I always got flight following! With a flight plan, they will start looking for you if you are overdue; with flight following, ATC knows where you are all the time, and is a button push away if you have a problem. It took a while for me to become a serious Instrument student. Bought the Mooney five weeks post-PPL, and planned to fly a year learning the plane and getting comfortable. That turned into two years, a few cancelled trips, a couple of flights over the top that worked out, a couple I turned around, got stuck between layers once before finding a hole and spiraling down . . . The last straw was heading to pick up Mom for the family reunion, flying towards mountain obscuration in E. KY that was forecast to dissipate but hadn't; it was about the only time that I was dropped from Flight Following instead of being passed on. When something white and fuzzy went by, I locked onto the AI and TC and did a smooth 180 and went home. Started training seriously the next week. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gitmo234 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said: A few years ago i borrowed a 152. I was planning a 2 hour trip, i checked the tanks, half full, perfect. Off i flew for my little trip, was watching the fuel and thought, hmm its a bit low, so i diverted into Biggin Hill to top up. Put 87 litres, into a 90 litre tank. So what happened, up until that point i had been flying TB series aircraft with a range of 6 hours. Half tanks in my head was 3 hours, ample. Half tanks in a 152 is only two hours, hence i came within 3 litres of running out of fuel. Easily done. In my J my minimm oil is 6 for a 1 hour flight or more if longer. She burns 1 quart every 6 - 8 hours or so. I spoke to the previous owner and his pattern was fill to eight and it would throw out 2 in the first hour then 6-7 hours before it burns about quart. Although ive read it before I’ve had Cessna numbers stuck in my head. No good. So let’s hope I didn’t do some real damage. I’m expecting to need a cylinder. I’ve looked through the engine logs and every cylinder has been swapped except #4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gitmo234 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 50 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said: From your pics and my seriously limited knowledge of engines, i think you have blown a gasket more than anything internal, i cant see any oil coming out of the exhaust pipe which would make me think its internal, it just seems to be around the cyl base. Nothing on the ground or inside the cowling really. Inside of the exhaust pipe is normal, black “dust” or whatever, no oily feeling, no white. Like a car exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 8 hours ago, Tx_Aggie said: I don't mean to sound like the annoying Monday morning quarterback, but as a fellow IFR pilot, this is the typical set up for a catastrophic accident. I remember once upon a time being the optimistic VFR pilot thinking I could fly anywhere in any weather situation as long as I could find a hole in the clouds and torpedo my way through to safety, but if you think about it there are several unwise factors that you probably haven't thought about: terrain changes, surface elevations relative to the cloud bases, radio towers several hundred feet high, buildings, other "scud running" airplanes. Also why your family or whoever is riding with you gets increasingly anxious over your pursuit to find this mysterious hole, the rest of the air traffic control system can hear your frantic silly efforts that typically disrupt the approach path of everyone who is qualified to fly in those conditions. I don't mean to be cynical. I myself have been there, looking very foolish for getting into a messy situation, ultimately putting my wife and I in potential danger while illegally Descending into and through the clouds. We made it, as you did, but it wasn't until after I got my instrument rating that I realized that mindset is stupid, unwise and dangerous for cross country travel. After an IFR certification, which is the system all other airplanes travel by, layers of cloud flying is very straight forward, fun, and safe provided you're current and actively being proactive/ahead of the airplane. You're entire story could be avoided with a simple approach into whatever airport you landed at. Please do yourself and your family a favor and start your IFR training today. You won't regret it, flying and traveling in general will be exponentially more enjoyable and then when you hear that guy trying to find a hole in the clouds while your autopilot is capturing and holding the glideslope to the runway 5 miles out, you'll be able to chuckle to yourself thinking "dude, go get your instrument rating." Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Even an IFR plane needs oil to complete the flight. This engine seems to have oil consumption issues to deal with first. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 8 hours ago, Tx_Aggie said: I don't mean to sound like the annoying Monday morning quarterback, but as a fellow IFR pilot, this is the typical set up for a catastrophic accident. I remember once upon a time being the optimistic VFR pilot thinking I could fly anywhere in any weather situation as long as I could find a hole in the clouds and torpedo my way through to safety, but if you think about it there are several unwise factors that you probably haven't thought about: terrain changes, surface elevations relative to the cloud bases, radio towers several hundred feet high, buildings, other "scud running" airplanes. Also why your family or whoever is riding with you gets increasingly anxious over your pursuit to find this mysterious hole, the rest of the air traffic control system can hear your frantic silly efforts that typically disrupt the approach path of everyone who is qualified to fly in those conditions. I don't mean to be cynical. I myself have been there, looking very foolish for getting into a messy situation, ultimately putting my wife and I in potential danger while illegally Descending into and through the clouds. We made it, as you did, but it wasn't until after I got my instrument rating that I realized that mindset is stupid, unwise and dangerous for cross country travel. After an IFR certification, which is the system all other airplanes travel by, layers of cloud flying is very straight forward, fun, and safe provided you're current and actively being proactive/ahead of the airplane. You're entire story could be avoided with a simple approach into whatever airport you landed at. Please do yourself and your family a favor and start your IFR training today. You won't regret it, flying and traveling in general will be exponentially more enjoyable and then when you hear that guy trying to find a hole in the clouds while your autopilot is capturing and holding the glideslope to the runway 5 miles out, you'll be able to chuckle to yourself thinking "dude, go get your instrument rating." Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Even an IFR plane needs oil to complete the flight. This engine seems to have oil consumption issues to deal with first. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor05121 Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 I just got back from the airport. Solid layer at 400 feet, it's been drizzling all day. I'm pulling into the hangar and see a 172 taxiing out. I watch him take off and listen to the power get pulled back. He is in and out of clouds at 400 feet, just circling the airport. It raised the hair on the back of my neck. About 20 minutes later he comes back and lands. I go out and offer him a ride to a hotel and he tells me he's been stuck here since yesterday, he thought he could get out and find a hole south. I'm glad he came back. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said: I just got back from the airport. Solid layer at 400 feet, it's been drizzling all day. I'm pulling into the hangar and see a 172 taxiing out. I watch him take off and listen to the power get pulled back. He is in and out of clouds at 400 feet, just circling the airport. It raised the hair on the back of my neck. About 20 minutes later he comes back and lands. I go out and offer him a ride to a hotel and he tells me he's been stuck here since yesterday, he thought he could get out and find a hole south. I'm glad he came back. Yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 I flew a rented C172 from NJ up to my friends house in NJ when I must have been a 75 hr pilot. I went up on a Friday and got weathered In until the next Wed or Thursday. One night when the stalled front finally passed it was clear but windy and i decided to make a go for it back down to VA... except the Airport was closed with a bunch of flashing lights at the end of the runway for a guy that put a Bonanza or something between two trees (you can’t land with a 20 kt tailwind on a 2900 ft runway). Fortune smiled upon that pilot who walked away with nothing more than an insurance check and me for teaching me not to push beyond my training and experience despite temptations to the contrary. I left the following night with a beautiful Hudson River tour and smooth skies southbound. I started instrument training the following week My armchair quarterback guess is that you have a bad prop seal (crank shaft gasket). My J uses 1 qt per 7 hrs flying. I flew it last night and I was down to 5.5 this morning (knowing that if it let it sit for another night it will get another half quart), but I have another few legs planned this holiday weekend so I put in another half in anticipation. If I fill it to seven I’m down to 6.25 or so the next day but it will stay there for 3.5-4.5 hrs. If I fill it to 8 I have nothing but a mess on my belly. I’m ok doing a short flight with just under 6 but plan to top off to >6 the next flight. Stay safe fellow pilots if you’re flying this Holiday weekend. Every thanksgiving there’s some sort of flying tragedy with a family gone because mins were exceeded and get there itis reared it’s ugly head. Stay within bounds and I’ll be thankful that no mooney pilots end up on crash talk this holiday season. God dammit... I looked on crash talk right after I posted this and looks like there is a fatal mooney crash in Florida. When we were flying north from NC today my wife and I looked at the mess of a system down in Florida and said that we wouldn’t want to be near that. Thought to the family. This blows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gitmo234 Posted November 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Saw this on another post. Ironic and accurate. I’m just over 170 hours. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Crap, I’m at the master pilot level. This winter is going to be rough 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Recent posts: luck/experience bucket. Amazing metaphor. Oil issue with E (IO-360): I had a seriously bent pushrod that broke the shroud. Flew for two hours that way, should have checked after first appearance of oil. Cylinder had an exhaust port crack. New jug is installed, rest has to wait until after I get back from my 'Accidental Tourist' trip to Canuckland. Anyway, lots of lessons learned. Engine is incredible, aircraft is still super. Hang in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKlott Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 OIL SUMP CAPACITY All Models (Except AIO-360 Series, O-360-J2A) ................................................8 U.S. Quarts Minimum Safe Quantity in Sump (Except – IO-360-M1A, -M1B; HIO-360-G1A) ................................................2 U.S. Quarts IO-360-M1A, -M1B; HIO-360-G1A ..................................................................4 U.S. Quarts AIO-360 Series ........................................................................................................... Dry Sump O-360-J2A..............................................................................................................6 U.S. Quarts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 34 minutes ago, BKlott said: OIL SUMP CAPACITY All Models (Except AIO-360 Series, O-360-J2A) ................................................8 U.S. Quarts Minimum Safe Quantity in Sump (Except – IO-360-M1A, -M1B; HIO-360-G1A) ................................................2 U.S. Quarts IO-360-M1A, -M1B; HIO-360-G1A ..................................................................4 U.S. Quarts AIO-360 Series ........................................................................................................... Dry Sump O-360-J2A..............................................................................................................6 U.S. Quarts The Arrow I used to rent had the IO-360 with the 2qt minimum as specified in the POH. That seemed crazy to me. I figured it meant it must have an exceptionally good oil cooler. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny moose Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 12 hours ago, gitmo234 said: Saw this on another post. Ironic and accurate. I’m just over 170 hours. Never seen that before, but in my personal experience that 150 hour mark needs to really be 1500 hour pilot. That seem to be the point that pilots are getting very comfortable and proficient in their abilities that they will push the limits of both airplane and themselves (how do I know this!!)You will always make mistakes, learn from it and have fun. Thanks for sharing it helps all of us Oh and just because you have an IR you should still have personal minimums and other issues come into play( think icing and you cannot climb or descend for the next minute that seems like an hour, meeting take off and climb perfomance requirements without visual references, holding,ATC delays, or even fuel management that may get into your fuel reserves) , some of your minimums should be higher than what the approach plate or regs state, until you are very comfortable with instrument flying, not just autopilot flying. Shooting an ILS to actual mins looking up without seeing shit, then a real missed approach with maybe a climbing turn to intercept a radial to a hold, while changing a frequency with an autopilot on and one without any autopilot are 2 very different things. This of course is just my personal opinion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 a friend of mine told told me about a book called “The Danger Zone”. I can’t remember who wrote it, but it basically goes into detail to explain this graph. I think he said that statistics show that 150 hours to 350 hours TT pilots have the highest accident rate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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