Insurance

[Daniel VanBuskirk]

New here! I currently fly a 1989 piper Dakota valued at 155K I have 500 hours and instrument rated I'm a 50 yr old Dentist clean as a whistle record.  I'm doing my homework on the purchase of a 2008-09 Mooney Acclaim.  I called my insurance I currently pay $1,100 yr for insurance and just got a quote for $11,000  a yr for an acclaim.  I asked if I heard that right. They said there's been a lot of gear up landings with the mooney's lately.  Planes with retractable gear has sky rocketed. I'm getting a second quote but just had to put this question out on the forum.  Has everyone being seeing a serge in insurance with retractable or did i just get a gal that's retiring on my hobby. Appreciate the help.

Danny

[Geoff]

My suspicion is that the large difference you are seeing is driven by hull values.  Insuring a $750K hull vs a ~$150K hull on a linear basis is 5x as much.  Add the retract premium and no time in type and viola!

[aggiepilot04]

That is absurd.  I'll shoot you a PM.

[DonMuncy]

6 minutes ago, Geoff said:

My suspicion is that the large difference you are seeing is driven by hull values.  Insuring a $750K hull vs a ~$150K hull on a linear basis is 5x as much.  Add the retract premium and no time in type and viola!

+1

[Geoff]

Sorry, I missed the year of the Acclaim.  Given that I agree the quote seems high.

[ArtVandelay]

Did they say who the underwriter was?

[Bob_Belville]

Low retract time will be an cost issue for a year or 2.

You might want to contact some other brokers. Falcon in TX knows Mooneys. Avemco does not uses brokers and will give you an immediate quote. It would not usually be the lowest but it would give you a cross reference.

Some underwriters stay away from segments of the market that others specialize in. Your obscene quote is probably a polite(?) way of saying go away kid.

 

[MIm20c]

I would think the rate would be around 4-4.5k after you have a couple hundred hrs of complex and time in type.  

[Daniel VanBuskirk]

1 hour ago, teejayevans said:

Did they say who the underwriter was?

AIG  It was a "tire kicker" quote.  I called back and they said it was like a new driver driving  a Lamborghini. I again repeated i would have about 750 hours and IFR but no retractable time. 

[rgpilot]

I use the AOPA insurance and they are very reasonable and easy to deal with.

[Bartman]

Maybe join a club with a retract or find some way and get significant retract time.  Might be worth your while.

[ArtVandelay]

1 hour ago, Daniel VanBuskirk said:

AIG  It was a "tire kicker" quote.  I called back and they said it was like a new driver driving  a Lamborghini. I again repeated i would have about 750 hours and IFR but no retractable time. 

That’s what I thought, AIG has been anti retracts for some time, ask then to check with Global.

[Daniel VanBuskirk]

Just a update I have checked with a few folks recommendations from this post and I have had  better quoits.  Waiting for a few more call backs but the first is $3,800yr

Thanks again for all your help.

Danny

[LANCECASPER]

I have a suggestion. Buy a nice Bravo, (which is within 10-15 knots of an Acclaim) for 175K-200K and build up some retractable time. The hull value will be less so you'll pay about half the insurance premiums and you will go through less cylinders on the Lycoming than the Continental engines. No starter adaptor to deal with on the Lycomings either. Your avionics options are wide open on pre-G1000 Bravos and aren't tied to the type certificate.

[exM20K]

What is the hull rate quoted and what what are the liability limits?  

FWIW, I paid 0.96% hull first year with very little M20TN time but a couple thousand M20T hours.  When I asked for a quote on an M350 I was taking on trade for a Diamond, I was quoted 1.15%, and the agent told me that 0.9% was about as low as it would go with time in type.  Mooneys are very cheap to insure (relative to PA46, at least). 

My renewal was at 0.65% hull. 

Unless you're looking for >$1MM smooth, the liability part should be not a lot - a few $ hundred.

I suspect that lack of retract time is going to crank up the hull rate for the first year and require 25 hours of dual.  Finding a qualified M20TN CFI from whom to get that dual is not easy.  MAPASF may be able to help.

[whiskytango]

On 11/17/2017 at 2:25 PM, rgpilot said:

I use the AOPA insurance and they are very reasonable and easy to deal with.

+1

[carusoam]

The first Acclaim buyer was a Dentist...

Expect the high quote the first year...

Also expect the  price to drop about 1 amu the second year...

There aren't many ways of getting around the 1amu difference without spending an amu doing it... unless you know a transition trainer with an Acclaim already... or similar Long Body...

I had this experience when getting the O.  A decade of M20C time and IR and T-Training didn't cover the initial 1amu bump...

Best regards,

-a-

[CaptRJM]

Falcon helped me out a lot when I transitioned to Mooney’s. They quoted me around 20% less than AVEMCO. Now I’m down to about 1.25% on 1MM smooth. 

[Bravoman]

On 11/17/2017 at 4:16 PM, Daniel VanBuskirk said:

Just a update I have checked with a few folks recommendations from this post and  just got a curiosity, is what you were being quoted on I have had  better quoits.  Waiting for a few more call backs but the first is $3,800yr

Thanks again for all your help.

Danny

 Just out of curiosity,  are you being quoted on $1 million smooth liability policies or policies with liability sub limits? 

[buddy]

You can tell your insurance broker since you will have a G1000 there is an Audible alarm that says gear, gear, gear not  a gear horn and also an audible stall warning that says stall, stall, stall. I wrote a letter to my broker before he went out for quotes on my Ovation an I believe it helped me. By the way it’s some lady in the G1000 that yells at you.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, buddy said:

By the way it’s some lady in the G1000 that yells at you.

Hope it's not the same British Garmin gal in my Nuvi who's always telling me to "join the motorway" when I'm going down the interstate on ramp!  

[flyboy0681]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Hope it's not the same British Garmin gal in my Nuvi who's always telling me to "join the motorway" when I'm going down the interstate on ramp!  

In France recently the GPS told me to "bear right", which to me means get into the right lane. In a Peugeot it means take the exit.

[CaptRJM]

4 hours ago, Bravoman said:

 Just out of curiosity,  are you being quoted on $1 million smooth liability policies or policies with liability sub limits? 

No sub limits. True 1 MM Smooth

FWIW, Falcon has used AIG for me probably 6 of the 10 years that they have been my broker. As you probably know, there are very few companies writing GA policies. Falcon shops me around every year and for whatever reason AIG comes in the lowest. 

[exM20K]

4 hours ago, buddy said:

You can tell your insurance broker since you will have a G1000 there is an Audible alarm that says gear, gear, gear not  a gear horn and also an audible stall warning that says stall, stall, stall. I wrote a letter to my broker before he went out for quotes on my Ovation an I believe it helped me. By the way it’s some lady in the G1000 that yells at you.

Thread drift..... is there any way to get the voice stall warning to shut up?  Non-pilot pax don't really enjoy bitchin' Betty hollering "stall, stall, stall" many knots above the real stall speed 

[Niko182]

On 11/17/2017 at 8:33 AM, Daniel VanBuskirk said:

New here! I currently fly a 1989 piper Dakota valued at 155K I have 500 hours and instrument rated I'm a 50 yr old Dentist clean as a whistle record.  I'm doing my homework on the purchase of a 2008-09 Mooney Acclaim.  I called my insurance I currently pay $1,100 yr for insurance and just got a quote for $11,000  a yr for an acclaim.  I asked if I heard that right. They said there's been a lot of gear up landings with the mooney's lately.  Planes with retractable gear has sky rocketed. I'm getting a second quote but just had to put this question out on the forum.  Has everyone being seeing a serge in insurance with retractable or did i just get a gal that's retiring on my hobby. Appreciate the help.

Danny

Why not take a loot at possibly a little less plane. Ive the cessna I fly is pretty similar to the dakota, as in it can carry stuff, its old, its, pretty slow ( a tad bit faster than the cessna), NA, and fixed gear. After taking a flight in an m20f, I noticed that things happen a lot faster. that was in a plane that honestly does maybe 25 knots faster. Going from a plane that does 130 knots, to an aircraft that can do 225 to 230knots cruise is a big leap in speed. Maybe consider something a tad bit slower, such as an Ovation, Eagle, 201, for NA, or if you really want a Turbo, a Bravo, 231, 252, or an encore. Most of the planes i just named, are already speed demons. All planes listed, except for the 201, will easily do over 180 knots at 8 to 12 thousand feet, and the turbos should come pretty close to 200, if not past it. The if the insurance price is scaring you, Maintenance on an acclaim isn't exactly cheap either. Top overhauls every thousand hours or less, High insurance, Major overhaul isn't cheap either, High annuals, high fuel flow (compared to an ovation or Eagle) and hangar (this is not an aircraft that deserves to sit on the ramp). For me and my family, the sweet spot we are looking for is the eagle, as it gets good fuel flow, the engine can actually get pretty close to the 2000tbo, from what I've seen on here, 13 to 14 GPH vs 22 to 23. also consider, will you be flying in the flight levels? I doubt in the dakota it made sense to go over 12,000 feet and wear oxygen. Are you going to actually fly above 14,000ft. if you're flying 8 to 12000 ft, the ovation or a missile is a better choice. I hate to be "that guy" but the acclaim is a lot of plane, probably getting pretty close to the piston lancairs. Does your mission truly require "all that plane".