IFR planning procedures in US vs Canada

[milotron]

Hi,

I am planning some flights into Washington state from Victoria BC in the next couple of weeks. I typical file IFR regardless of conditions to stay in the system. I understand things are done differently in the US from Canada. Please correct me where I am wrong:

In preparation for the departure from a US airport, assuming all customs efforts have been completed:

1. File an IFR flight plan using 1800wxbrief or using Foreflight 30 minutes or more in advance.

2. Go through Clearance Delivery for clearance. They will give me routing, departure, etc for the IFR flight plan.

3. Go through ground for Taxi.

4. Activate flight plan through Flight Services Radio before entering active.

5. Contact Tower and take off, following hand-offs as provided.

 

Is this correct? In Canada we don't "activate" and flight plans; we "open" them when we get out clearance either from Clearance Delivery, Ground or ATC MF.

 

iain

 

[kortopates]

 

26 minutes ago, milotron said:

4. Activate flight plan through Flight Services Radio before entering active.

We only activate VFR flight plans through Flight Service. For IFR flight plans, you'll get your clearance as you listed through clearance delivery or ground (depending on the airport and how busy it is). Then at the runway, when ready to depart, you'll call tower and tell them you are holding short of runway xyz for IFR release. Tower will respond with "Mooney abc hold for release - or clear you for takeoff. Most likely you'll wait till released. Unless its a class B airport, the tower often has to coordinate your release with the TRACON or Center.

Similarly if you land at a towered airport, you won't need to close your IFR flight plan like you would with a VFR flight plan. But at an untowered airport you'll have to either cancel in the air before landing or close/cancel it on the ground with the radio or via phone. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by kortopates

[thinwing]

Also one little gotcha...because it is an intl flight ,composite flight plans are not allowed..i.e. Vfr to IFR as would happen if you took off from the boonies Vfr with the intention of picking up IFR at some intersection...it is either all Vfr or all IFR.

[Hank]

4 hours ago, thinwing said:

Also one little gotcha...because it is an intl flight ,composite flight plans are not allowed..i.e. Vfr to IFR as would happen if you took off from the boonies Vfr with the intention of picking up IFR at some intersection...it is either all Vfr or all IFR.

That shouldn't be an issue when leaving his US Customs stop, except for the border-crossing leg going home.

[midlifeflyer]

As others said, everything except #4. I’m sticking with your scenario if departing a towered airport. If there is a need to delay your actual entry into the system, Tower will have you "hold for release."

is it substantially different in Canada?

[jlunseth]

Two things.  First, you can file your flight plan through Lockheed Martin and take off immediately.  1-800-WX-BRIEF .  They put it directly into the system.

Second, how you activate and close an IFR flight plan depends in part on whether you are taking off from, or landing at, a towered airport.

To open an IFR flight plan at a towered airport you follow the procedure that has been described, get a clearance from clearance delivery, and then when you are at the hold short line the tower will typically hold you for release for a short time.  When they clear you for takeoff, they, the tower, opens your IFR flight plan, there is nothing further you need to do except follow there directions.  If you are at a non-towere airport the procedure is a little different.  You will need to either (1) find a local RCO frequency so you can talk to ATC's clearance delivery and get your clearance, or (2) call Flight Services and they will relay your request to ATC for your clearance.  The clearance language will be a little different.  It will be something like "ATC clears N381SP direct KFCM as filed, etc." and then they will give you a "void if not off by" time.  Usually you have a five or ten minute window to get off the ground, so best to make the phone call from the plane with the engine running.  Once you are in the air, you need to contact ATC as soon as practicable.

On landing, if you are at a towered airport and the tower is in operation, tower closes your IFR flight plan, there is nothing for you to do.  If you land at a non-towered field you must either (1) cancel in the air before landing if you are in VMC, (2) contact ATC through an RCO frequency if there is one, and close directly with ATC, or (3) contact Lockheed-Martin Flight Services and close the flight plan with them as soon as you can.  ATC has the airspace locked down until your flight plan is closed, so the sooner the better.  There is a special phone number for Lockheed for clearance delivery, I will look it up and post it.  The regular number that I put in above, also works, but not quite as fast.

VFR flight plans are opened and closed with Flight Services by the pilot.  It is easier to use "VFR Flight Following" where you would not need to file a VFR flight plan, but just ask tower or clearance delivery or ATC for VFR Flight Following before you taxi.

[jlunseth]

800-766-8627 is the Lockheed Flight Services clearance delivery number.  Very recently the FAA began publishing regional clearance delivery numbers in the AF/D, now known as the Chart Supplement, and you can call them directly to open and close.  I have not tried that myself yet.

[gsxrpilot]

The last time I filed and flew IFR it was an actual IMC day. But it was a last minute decision once everyone was ready to go. We climbed into the airplane and I grabbed my iPad and filed with ForeFlight. As soon as I submitted it, I got the plane started, got the ATIS, and got ready to taxi. It couldn't have been 2 minutes later that I called ground for taxi clearance. I never mentioned our IFR flight plan as I'm sure it wasn't in the system yet. I figured I'd launch VFR and pick up the IFR 10 or 15 minutes later before going IMC.

"252AD on the FBO ramp, with Tango, ready to taxi" the immediate reply was "N252AD is cleared to 84R as filed, climb maintain 3000 expect 12,000 10 minutes..."

I was pretty surprised and didn't even have a paper out to copy anything down.

It seems the link to ATC via ForeFlight is getting better all the time. Which is good, it's the only method I've used to file in the last four years.

[Bob - S50]

One more option, as if we haven't confused you enough yet.  And I don't know if you can do this for international flights but I assume you can.

If you are departing a non-towered airport, and you are unable to raise ATC on the ground to get your clearance, and the weather is VMC, you can take off VFR, call ATC when airborne, tell them where you are, and tell them you'd like to pick up your IFR clearance.

That's what Seattle Approach actually prefers if the weather permits.  It allows you to get airborne quicker because ATC doesn't have to get a release for you and they don't have to worry about conflicts with traffic at other airports.  You MUST remain VFR though until you get your clearance.  When I do this, I climb to some altitude below the class B airspace, set my power and mixture, and turn on the autopilot in altitude and heading hold before I give them a call.  That way, the plane can fly for me while I copy my clearance.

One other thing about doing it that way though.  If the altitude you are at is below their sector altitude, they may ask if you are able to maintain terrain clearance until reaching some altitude.  They are not asking if you can maintain VMC until you reach that altitude, they just want to make sure you won't hit anything.  If I can see there are no hills in front of me I'll tell them I can.  They'll clear me to climb to some altitude and I can do so even if I have to enter the clouds to do that.

[jlunseth]

33 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

The last time I filed and flew IFR it was an actual IMC day. But it was a last minute decision once everyone was ready to go. We climbed into the airplane and I grabbed my iPad and filed with ForeFlight. As soon as I submitted it, I got the plane started, got the ATIS, and got ready to taxi. It couldn't have been 2 minutes later that I called ground for taxi clearance. I never mentioned our IFR flight plan as I'm sure it wasn't in the system yet. I figured I'd launch VFR and pick up the IFR 10 or 15 minutes later before going IMC.

"252AD on the FBO ramp, with Tango, ready to taxi" the immediate reply was "N252AD is cleared to 84R as filed, climb maintain 3000 expect 12,000 10 minutes..."

I was pretty surprised and didn't even have a paper out to copy anything down.

It seems the link to ATC via ForeFlight is getting better all the time. Which is good, it's the only method I've used to file in the last four years.

That's good to hear.  Three or four years ago I tried filing through fltplan.com .  It took a minimum of 24 hours.  I would get to the line and there would be no flight plan.  I typically don't file until just before the flight because I want to know the most current weather conditions.  Might be a reason to route around something, or pick an altitude that is above the clouds tops which you won't really know until just before take-off.  I will try foreflight.

[Bryan]

Also, what has made it nice for me with Foreflight (filing) and my new FlightStream 510 is that Foreflight regularly gets a response back on expected route from the system.  I filed direct to Scottsdale, AZ (KSDL) several weeks ago from Albuquerque and got a crazy "expected route."  Once Foreflight received that information back into the system, it asked me to load it into the Maps view - I confirmed.  They also gave me an expected Squawk.  Then once in the plane and ready for taxi, I called to get my clearance, and the exact route and squawk was given to me albeit the "climb maintain 6,000/expect 16,000 10 minutes..." and I was able to push the route with 5 waypoints into my GTN 750 with a touch of the button on the iPad.

[PaulM]

Foreflight now uses LockMart for filing, so it is available in the computer immediately (as soon as it is acknowledged)    4 years ago I missed the 2 hour hold over window, and the tower told me the clearance had timed out, so I re-filed with the iPad on the cell network, and ground immediately contacted me with Cleared as filed..etc etc. 

So:

File IFR flight plan.

Towered airport:  Listen to ATIS, Contact clearance, get clearance.  contact ground with information "xxx".  Taxi to runway, do run up.  Tower will arrange your release. Depart, switch to ATC. 

Non Towered:  Contact clearence on "local" number (AFD, or local knowledge), or call 800-766-8627, Or launch VFR @ contact approach in the air. Get clearence with void time, or hold for release.  Run up, when #1, call for release, depart:

Picking up IFR in the air on a VFR day is regional,  many places prefer it, others won't accept it (Philly).  you can ask approach what they prefer when you are inbound.

Arriving:

Towered airport:  Land, tower closes the IFR plan for you.

Non Towered:  Either:  Cancel IFR & fly visual approach.  or Approach will tell you the procedure for cancelling on the ground and usually give you the local direct#.   This is a good time to ask them how they want to be contacted for your departure. 

[milotron]

Thanks!

 

All great info.

The flights are into Bellingham from Victoria BC. All of 16 minutes...I file IFR for most flights and would treat this the same. There is lots of cross border work there so they'll know what they are doing, I am just trying not to look foolish.

 

In Canada and IFR flight plan has to be filed ( by foreflight, but I usually call it in ) at least 30 minutes prior to departure time for it to get in the 'system', whatever that means.  When we call Clearance or Ground, they will give us the IFR clearance, routing, Xponder xode, etc. BUT if it uncontrolled, then the airspace is yours NOW and you need to be the next plane in the air. At a controlled airport, tower will clear you for takeoff, presumably providing the required separations at that time.

Not that much different, but enough that things can get missed. Adding the CBP and homeland stuff to all of that too. I am sure it is easy after you have done it.

 

iain

[Cyril Gibb]

IFR flight plans in Canada or the US is essentially the same with the tower or controlling authority opening and closing.  VFR flight plans in Canada open automatically at the planned departure time.  VFR flight plans in the US have to be opened "manually" by calling flight service or doing it online.  Both countries require manual closing of VFR flight plans.

Yesterday, I left Kansas City VFR after filing a VFR flight online and then opening online.  I almost always use flight following when going long distances VFR.  The weather turned sour so I got a popup clearance on the way back home to Kitchener.  The VFR flight plan apparently magically turned into an IFR flight plan that the tower closed when I arrived.

Important note:  cross border flight plans either direction must be ICAO format, not US domestic format.

Important note 2: file your eAPIs the day before you arrive or depart in case there's a problem with the system... password expired or whatever.  If it turns out that you don't arrive or depart on that date, the eAPIs just expires with no need to cancel.  It just drops off the system.  Submit another eAPIs for the new date of of arrival or departure.

[milotron]

Thanks for the tip on eAPIS. I am leaving next week and filed the arrival notice to make sure it all worked. I was wondering how to cancel it. Evidently I just ignore it!

 

iain

[Cyril Gibb]

5 minutes ago, milotron said:

Thanks for the tip on eAPIS. I am leaving next week and filed the arrival notice to make sure it all worked. I was wondering how to cancel it. Evidently I just ignore it!

 

iain

Correct. no need to cancel it.  And no need to change if the arrival time changes... you only need to resubmit if the date, arrival location or passenger manifest changes.

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

The last time I filed and flew IFR it was an actual IMC day. But it was a last minute decision once everyone was ready to go. We climbed into the airplane and I grabbed my iPad and filed with ForeFlight. As soon as I submitted it, I got the plane started, got the ATIS, and got ready to taxi. It couldn't have been 2 minutes later that I called ground for taxi clearance. I never mentioned our IFR flight plan as I'm sure it wasn't in the system yet. I figured I'd launch VFR and pick up the IFR 10 or 15 minutes later before going IMC.

"252AD on the FBO ramp, with Tango, ready to taxi" the immediate reply was "N252AD is cleared to 84R as filed, climb maintain 3000 expect 12,000 10 minutes..."

I was pretty surprised and didn't even have a paper out to copy anything down.

It seems the link to ATC via ForeFlight is getting better all the time. Which is good, it's the only method I've used to file in the last four years.

I have the same experience with a void time clearance at a non-towered airport. Available within minutes.

As someone else mentioned, although there's no question ForeFlight's implementation is excellent,  it's actually a Lockmart service available to other apps too.

[flight2000]

2 hours ago, jlunseth said:

That's good to hear.  Three or four years ago I tried filing through fltplan.com .  It took a minimum of 24 hours.  I would get to the line and there would be no flight plan.  I typically don't file until just before the flight because I want to know the most current weather conditions.  Might be a reason to route around something, or pick an altitude that is above the clouds tops which you won't really know until just before take-off.  I will try foreflight.

That's no longer the case.  I usually file in the FBO through fltplan.com before heading to the plane and it's always been there when I call CD - sometimes as fast as 10 minutes later.  Never had an issue in the last 2 years using this method.  I don't use FF and never will unless they happen to be the last app standing.

Cheers,

Brian

[Bob_Belville]

I usually file through Garmin Pilot which works like your ForeFlight apparently. We live in a magic age. 

[jaylw314]

13 hours ago, milotron said:

Hi,

I am planning some flights into Washington state from Victoria BC in the next couple of weeks. I typical file IFR regardless of conditions to stay in the system. I understand things are done differently in the US from Canada. Please correct me where I am wrong:

In preparation for the departure from a US airport, assuming all customs efforts have been completed:

1. File an IFR flight plan using 1800wxbrief or using Foreflight 30 minutes or more in advance.

2. Go through Clearance Delivery for clearance. They will give me routing, departure, etc for the IFR flight plan.

3. Go through ground for Taxi.

4. Activate flight plan through Flight Services Radio before entering active.

5. Contact Tower and take off, following hand-offs as provided.

 

Is this correct? In Canada we don't "activate" and flight plans; we "open" them when we get out clearance either from Clearance Delivery, Ground or ATC MF.

 

iain

 

I think procedures are essentially identical, but you might be using different words for the same thing.  In the US, instead of "opening" an IFR flight plan, we ask to "pick up an IFR plan to XXX" or "pick up IFR to XXX" when we contact the appropriate facility.  I don't think that terminology is recommended in the AIM, but it seems to be what everyone here does.  As long as you make it clear you have an IFR plan filed, though, I'm assuming the facility will figure out what you're talking about.

The other services we have are Flight Services and 1800wxbrief.  In a busy ATC environment, it's polite to go through one of them instead of asking ATC for your clearance if you didn't get it from a towered field.  In most parts of the Pacific Northwest (other than over Seattle during the day), though, ATC will help you out getting your clearance.

At a towered field, if you get in on the ground it shouldn't be any different than what you do now.

Edited November 8, 2017 by jaylw314

[midlifeflyer]

36 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

I think procedures are essentially identical, but you might be using different words for the same thing.  In the US, instead of "opening" an IFR flight plan, we ask to "pick up an IFR plan to XXX" or "pick up IFR to XXX" when we contact the appropriate facility.  I don't think that terminology is recommended in the AIM, but it seems to be what everyone here does.  As long as you make it clear you have an IFR plan filed, though, I'm assuming the facility will figure out what you're talking about.

The other services we have are Flight Services and 1800wxbrief.  In a busy ATC environment, it's polite to go through one of them instead of asking ATC for your clearance if you didn't get it from a towered field.  In most parts of the Pacific Northwest (other than over Seattle during the day), though, ATC will help you out getting your clearance.

At a towered field, if you get in on the ground it shouldn't be any different than what you do now.

That depends. There are, for example, nontowered airports with dedicated CD radio frequencies. And telephonic RCOs (although all the ones I've encountered the past few years have been unusable). And airports where the best method is a phone call to TRACON. And those where the response of Flight Service when calling for a clearance is, "You can reach them on 1XX.X."  @milotron's original question dealt with flight out of a towered field. If he needs more I'm sure he'll ask, but I've found many US pilots who fly primarily towered who have surprisingly little knowledge of nontowered IFR procedures.

Fortunately IFR  towered ops has a little less variety, although I don't think anyone else has pointed out that not all towered airports have a dedicated Clearance  Delivery frequency, in which case you get your clearance from Ground (at least I don't think there are any Class Ds left without a dedicated Ground frequency).

[RobertGary1]

6 hours ago, Cyril Gibb said:

Important note:  cross border flight plans either direction must be ICAO format, not US domestic format.

I think the US domestic is being phased out anyway for domestic flights.

-Robert

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

That depends. There are, for example, nontowered airports with dedicated CD radio frequencies. And telephonic RCOs (although all the ones I've encountered the past few years have been unusable). And airports where the best method is a phone call to TRACON. And those where the response of Flight Service when calling for a clearance is, "You can reach them on 1XX.X."  @milotron's original question dealt with flight out of a towered field. If he needs more I'm sure he'll ask, but I've found many US pilots who fly primarily towered who have surprisingly little knowledge of nontowered IFR procedures.

Fortunately IFR  towered ops has a little less variety, although I don't think anyone else has pointed out that not all towered airports have a dedicated Clearance  Delivery frequency, in which case you get your clearance from Ground (at least I don't think there are any Class Ds left without a dedicated Ground frequency).

That's why I didn't want to get too complicated.  It was a stressful day in my IFR training when on my long cross country, my instructor gleefully stated, "so today, we're going to make sure you pick up your clearances in as many ways as possible."    Although I admit, he didn't make me try calling ATC on the phone.

 

[jaylw314]

15 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I think the US domestic is being phased out anyway for domestic flights.

-Robert

No, they put it on hold indefinitely

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/october/04/mandatory-icao-flight-plan-filing-on-hold

[RobertGary1]

43 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

That's why I didn't want to get too complicated.  It was a stressful day in my IFR training when on my long cross country, my instructor gleefully stated, "so today, we're going to make sure you pick up your clearances in as many ways as possible."    Although I admit, he didn't make me try calling ATC on the phone.

 

I remember the first time I called FSS for a clearance release on a cell phone. They were very confused. They were used to giving void times in excess of 20 minutes. I kept explaining to them I was on a cellular telephone in the airplane.

 

-Robert

Edited November 8, 2017 by RobertGary1