pinerunner

Garmin G5 with HSI: Just what I've been waiting for?

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A few years back I got very interested in the Sandel HSI's after reading about the 3308 capabilities. I liked the idea of having multiple navigation in puts into one display and having it linked t a magnetometer. But the newer Sandels were pretty expensive, especially after installation, the older 3308 needed a bulb change every year and the installation for it wouldn't be cheap. Once the electronic displays showed up a couple years ago I've been watching them and licking my chops.

The L3 ESI 500 was in the lead because it both allowed magnetometer input and navigation input. Garmin's G5 didn't so it was out. Now Garmin fixed that so magnetic input and a single nav input from a Garmin-approved list can be used and it can be switched from the main mode (like souped up artificial horizon) to an HSI mode giving navigation and heading.  They'll be hard to beat but I hope the other companies try. They had said we'd have to wait for the FAA approval but here it is. Could it be the FAA wised up and fast-tracked something that made so much sense? Too bad it only allows one nav input but other than that it's got everything I think I want.

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According to Garmin webinar, the FAA is working at light speed.

Im waiting for Garmin to ship my dual G5s and will give a pirep when completed.

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On 11/7/2017 at 8:40 AM, pinerunner said:

A few years back I got very interested in the Sandel HSI's after reading about the 3308 capabilities. I liked the idea of having multiple navigation in puts into one display and having it linked t a magnetometer. But the newer Sandels were pretty expensive, especially after installation, the older 3308 needed a bulb change every year and the installation for it wouldn't be cheap. Once the electronic displays showed up a couple years ago I've been watching them and licking my chops.

The L3 ESI 500 was in the lead because it both allowed magnetometer input and navigation input. Garmin's G5 didn't so it was out. Now Garmin fixed that so magnetic input and a single nav input from a Garmin-approved list can be used and it can be switched from the main mode (like souped up artificial horizon) to an HSI mode giving navigation and heading.  They'll be hard to beat but I hope the other companies try. They had said we'd have to wait for the FAA approval but here it is. Could it be the FAA wised up and fast-tracked something that made so much sense? Too bad it only allows one nav input but other than that it's got everything I think I want.

I wonder if you could install a switch to toggle between TWO nav inputs.  I have two Avidyne 440s and it would be nice to have the option of choosing which input is driving the G5 HSI albeit not really necessary.

I wonder if the STC allows source input from an Avidyne IFD navigator or if Garmin is playing the “only Garmin works with Garmin” game again.

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5 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

I wonder if the STC allows source input from an Avidyne IFD navigator or if Garmin is playing the “only Garmin works with Garmin” game again.

My understanding is the responsibility falls on Avidyne to update the 440/540 stc to include the Garmin unit. This would be true for the hsi, AP, etc. 

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My understanding is the responsibility falls on Avidyne to update the 440/540 stc to include the Garmin unit. This would be true for the hsi, AP, etc. 
That is my understanding as well. Currently only Garmin GTN/GNS units and their newer NAV/COMS are listed. None of the old stuff, nor competitor boxes.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

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My plane is in the shop now getting two g5’s and gad29b Installed.  Should be completed this week.  PIREP to follow.

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I am looking at doing the same thing and I'd be interested in knowing the final install cost and whether you will be allowed to remove the vacuum system.  Also, will there be any issues regarding the limited number of 429 ports on the 430?  I understand that the GAD29B needs both ports and Garmin is looking into a software workaround for this.

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8 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Will this allow removal of the vacuum system?

It depends.

I am getting 2 G5s, GMU11, GAD29B installed. I hoped I can remove my vacuum since I have already Sandia 340 installed as my AI backup. But I also have Century IIB AP and that uses my existing vacuum driven AI for the roll input. So it has to stay in. I don’t have any more room in my panel and I have to remove my Sandia and use my existing vacuum AI as the backup. Once the GFC500:is available I can remove my vacuum and put the Sandia back. 

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1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

See one of if not the last endnote on the M20 type certificate which specifically addresses this question. 

Thanks, Bluehighwayflyer.  I found a copy of the type certificate online and it states: 

  • NOTE 24: Aircraft models that originally were certified with vacuum powered attitude systems that have those systems replaced with a non-vacuum powered attitude system: If the Primary Attitude system has been replaced with an FAA Approved STC’d installation that meets the requirements of 14 CFR 23.1303(f)(i)(ii)(iii)(iv)(v)(vi), 23.1311(a)(1)(2)(5)(6)(b)(c), 23.1321(a)((c)(d)(1), 23.1331(a)(b)(1)(2)(c), thereby leaving no operational systems dependent on a Primary or Standby (if equipped) Vacuum system, then the Primary and Standby (if equipped) Vacuum pumps and associated lines, manifolds, etc may be removed from the aircraft. Refer to engine manufacturer’s instructions of removal and capping off of engine driven vacuum pumps.

I have the original AI and DG but nothing else connected to the vacuum pump so it indeed looks like it would be fine to remove the vacuum pump and associated lines after replacing my AI and DG with dual G5s.

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My vacuum system has been removed as part of my upgrade.  And yes, there are limited ports on the 430 so I also have had the TIS-A from the 330ES removed on the 1st 430.  It will instead be displayed on the 2nd 430.   Not a big deal to me because I watch my iPad/ADSB traffic more than my 430's.

Removed equipment: 

1) AI

2) Stec DG

3) Stec GPSS roll steer computer

4) GI106B 

5) vacuum hoses, filters, pump.

All of these will be for sale.

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13 hours ago, Philip said:

My plane is in the shop now getting two g5’s and gad29b Installed.  Should be completed this week.  PIREP to follow.

stupid question, but why two g5s?  I've been hit or miss on these threads, but did they ever come to an agreement about using a second as non-primary?

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4 minutes ago, rbridges said:

stupid question, but why two g5s?

The first of a primary AI, the second is a primary HSI.  They both have 3-4 hour battery and both can act as the other.

Edited by Philip
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Just now, rbridges said:

stupid question, but why two g5s?

My guess is half the cost of an Aspen and you can remove the vacuum system for nearly the same capability.

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Just now, Philip said:

The first of a primary AI, the second is a primary HSI.  They both have 3-4 battery and both can act as the other.

thanks, that makes sense now.

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14 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

My guess is half the cost of an Aspen and you can remove the vacuum system for nearly the same capability.

The problem I am having is that, like @MooneyBob, the KFC 200 (autopilot) in mine requires the roll steering from the AI.  I will probably upgrade to a single G5 HSI to replace my steam HSI and then wait for a G5 AI to be able to talk to the vintage autopilots or install a GFC500.  I think I can install a second G5 AI to replace the turn corrdinator but I have to keep my AI for the autopilot.

The Aspen can be installed replacing both the AI and the HSI if you purchase the EA100 - another $2500 on top of whatever Aspen you get installed - so yes, at least twice the cost.  

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For those of us with AI driven autopilots, I just don't see any value in the G5. If I have to keep the AI, and it runs everything, then the G5 is just a fancy glass backup.

And while this doesn't apply to me, I'm still curious... If one has a TC driven Stec autopilot, will the heading bug on the G5 in HSI mode drive the autopilot? 

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I'm pretty sure through the use of the GAD29b, you can use the flight director in the G5 to drive legacy APs.

My AP doesn't use AI, but when I was reviewing the install manual, I am pretty sure I saw the AI has the flight director interfacing install instructions in the latest revision 9 manual.

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My plane is in the shop now getting two g5’s and gad29b Installed.  Should be completed this week.  PIREP to follow.

Ditto

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GAD 29b doesn't remove requirement for attitude outputs for attitude-driven autopilots.  It only provides analog emulation of a legacy HSI or DG input.

For a TC autopilot like STEC, yes the heading bug on the G5 HSI will drive the autopilot.

One of the benefits for us legacy autopilot folk for the G5 HSI is that GPSS is built in to the G5.

I'm about this close to purchasing the G5 HSI... 

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6 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

For those of us with AI driven autopilots, I just don't see any value in the G5. If I have to keep the AI, and it runs everything, then the G5 is just a fancy glass backup.

And while this doesn't apply to me, I'm still curious... If one has a TC driven Stec autopilot, will the heading bug on the G5 in HSI mode drive the autopilot? 

yes, GAD29b

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For me, the G5 HSI is of value because I don't have GPS Roll steering.  I have to turn the indicator at each course change - it wont' follow the magenta line.  Instead of installing a DAC for Roll Steering, it makes more sense for me to install a G5 HSI with the GAD-29B to talk to the autopilot.  It is my understanding that a G5 AI cannot take over and send the Flight Director signals to the King autopilots.

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Will this allow removal of the vacuum system?

Yes, but I going to keep it for the time being...moving legacy AI over to available spot.

There is more than removing pump and assorted hoses,etc. Annunciator and vacuum warning has to be addressed.

 

 

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