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service ceiling


jash767

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You'll make it there. Its all a function of weight and temperature. Weight is very significant. Your airplane will do much more solo / with 1 aboard than with the seats full. Its no different in a jetliner... level off low when you're heavy, step climb as the fuel is burned....

I took my E to FL210 just to see what it would do, but that was wintertime stunt with 1 aboard and half fuel. I believe it would go to FL250, but I stopped at 21 as I did not want to put all of my eggs into my single oxygen tank. By comparison, 17 is tough in the summer if more than 2 aboard. The E has 20 extra ponies but I think the difference would not be huge.

BUT - you will have no excess power to counteract anything that doesn't go your way, for example mountain wave, ice, etc. You'll be along for the ride altitude-wise when the air gets thin and the atmosphere isn't perfect.

Edited by Immelman
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I did get my C to 15,000 msl over southern Ohio one August afternoon. Climb wasn't good . . . Later calculated DA was 18,800.

Lesson:  density altitude is what matters, not the altimeter reading. I step-climbed the last couple thousand feet.

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18 minutes ago, steingar said:

Last time I had mine at 12K it didn't seem to have that that much left.  It might have climbed, but I doubt the airplane would have relished the experience.  I wouldn't count on going much higher, especially on a hot day.

Interesting. That seems really low. Would be a huge limitation on West here.

-Robert

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1 hour ago, steingar said:

Last time I had mine at 12K it didn't seem to have that that much left.  It might have climbed, but I doubt the airplane would have relished the experience.  I wouldn't count on going much higher, especially on a hot day.

I put many hours on my C at 13,500. Summer, winter, loaded to gross weight, it didn't seem to matter up to that altitude. LOP it was just barely sipping the fuel :-)

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24 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I put many hours on my C at 13,500. Summer, winter, loaded to gross weight, it didn't seem to matter up to that altitude. LOP it was just barely sipping the fuel :-)

I wouldn't do LOP in a carbureted engine.  Mine might do 13.5, I think it might have had that left.  Might take awhile to get there.  Unfortunately our airplanes were built by hand, so they don' tall perform the exact same way.  And aftermarket modifications can have a profound effect on speed, climb rate, and service ceiling.  Thankfully I've no immediate plans to go anywhere with big rocks.

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2 minutes ago, steingar said:

I wouldn't do LOP in a carbureted engine.  Mine might do 13.5, I think it might have had that left.  Might take awhile to get there.  Unfortunately our airplanes were built by hand, so they don' tall perform the exact same way.  And aftermarket modifications can have a profound effect on speed, climb rate, and service ceiling.  Thankfully I've no immediate plans to go anywhere with big rocks.

LOP worked fine in my carbureted C. But only if I pulled it back off the second jet. Now it's true that it didn't work every time. And sometimes a little shot of Carb heat would get it to run smooth. It's certainly not as reliable as a fuel injected engine, but there's no harm in trying. Either it works or it doesn't. But when it does, 13,500 at 140 TAS and 6.5 gph is pretty cool.

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Just now, gsxrpilot said:

LOP worked fine in my carbureted C. But only if I pulled it back off the second jet. Now it's true that it didn't work every time. And sometimes a little shot of Carb heat would get it to run smooth. It's certainly not as reliable as a fuel injected engine, but there's no harm in trying. Either it works or it doesn't. But when it does, 13,500 at 140 TAS and 6.5 gph is pretty cool.

Might try, though I'll have to get some oxygen first.  My first present to myself after I get the IR, that after I get some instruments installed in the aircraft.  I've now got two avionics shops that haven't returned my calls.

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I took my C to over 16,000 once crossing over into the front range north of Denver.  I was alone and it was fall with mild temperatures.  Very anemic climb above 14,000.   Took my F to 17,900 last year crossing the Sierra, but used the mountain wave for the climb.  Had 500 to 1000 fpm in the wave to climb from 13,000 to 17,900.

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Is there anything that would say what the best altitude to fly at.   I kind of like to watch the ground go by,  I think 6500 is about the highest cruise I have done and 7500 on a RTS flight.  Usually when there is a longer trip to do the cloud cover is low.   What's the break even point for going higher vs how long the flight is?

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My flight was over the water on the East coast.  So 12.5k’ for long glide range was instant payback.  Total flight was 200nm.... climbing over NYC Class B was a step in the way...  climb to altitude than turn to clear the Bravo when able... climb rate depended on total weight, and OAT...

You finally can put a finger on how important DA is.  Right after you T/O, lightly loaded at an OAT<20°F...

 With all that excess power that is really obvious and crisp climb through dense air... the opposite, of T/O, on a hot summer day, fully loaded...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

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3 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Not accounting for clouds and bumps, Garmin Pilot has a really cool flight planning feature that gives the forecasted winds aloft in terms of headwind or tailwind component at the various cruising altitudes. I typically base my cruising altitude decisions on that.  Between six and ten thousand seems to be the sweet spot for me.

The winds aloft part I get, I was looking more for some flight optimization formula.   If the winds are xx knots and the flight is xx amount of miles then it makes sense to climb to this high

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Yetti,  Check fltplan.com

I used to use their flight planning system to include the winds aloft at the time of my flight...

A couple of different altitudes used...  it wasn't as automated as one would expect.

With ADSB weather, things could be improving...?

Best regards,

-a-

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4 hours ago, carusoam said:

Yetti,  Check fltplan.com

I used to use their flight planning system to include the winds aloft at the time of my flight...

A couple of different altitudes used...  it wasn't as automated as one would expect.

With ADSB weather, things could be improving...?

Best regards,

-a-

I played with flt plan and not sure I liked the interface so kind of did not use it.   Maybe like Bluewater said it is a zero sum game.  Time spent going up is gained coming back down.   I just thought someone would have the magic efficiency formula and I was not part of the cool kids club.

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4 minutes ago, Yetti said:

I played with flt plan and not sure I liked the interface so kind of did not use it.   Maybe like Bluewater said it is a zero sum game.  Time spent going up is gained coming back down.   I just thought someone would have the magic efficiency formula and I was not part of the cool kids club.

I judge by flight time. It's nice to have some level cruise, not be climbing or descending the whole time. It's also nice to hit cool air in the summer . . . .

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Sure there is the magic formula....

  • plotting %bhp declining in the NA climb...
  • plotting the decreasing wind resistance as the altitude increases...

Our Best NA speeds work out to be around 7-8k’ at WOT...

But planning the flight to include the best tail wind requires significant wind calculations.  That’s when pltplan.com plugged and chugged the real world weather into it.

I used to try to know what the winds were doing before departing so I could stop climbing or continue climbing if there was an option... 

Now, knowing winds aloft using ADSB sounds like a good idea... I have only been on one long Xcountry this year... cruising around NJ doesn't really count as a long Xcountry....

Now, mostly, I just want to climb above the bumps...

Best regards,

-a-

 

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Took my 67C to 16,500 once just to see if it could. It was still climbing but slow going. I believe it would have made it to 18000. My best speeds are between 7-9k and it's where I typically cruise but climb to 10-12 occasionally if advantageous for whatever reason. I think we should know what are individual airplanes are able to do. Although there are certain differences between every C, engine condition probably pays a large role on how high you can climb


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, Yetti said:

I played with flt plan and not sure I liked the interface so kind of did not use it.   Maybe like Bluewater said it is a zero sum game.  Time spent going up is gained coming back down.   I just thought someone would have the magic efficiency formula and I was not part of the cool kids club.

Solo I can get the fl17 in under 13 min.

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