New Mooney Buyer Needs Insurance Suggestions

[MrRodgers]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post to this group and I enjoy this forum very much.

If all goes well this week at my pre-buy inspection taking place at Don Maxwells' shop, I will be the proud owner of a beautiful 1967 Mooney M 20 F Executive.

I am currently a "student" pilot with approximately 140 hrs in my log book due to many stops and starts in my training through many moves throughout the world. 

I am two weeks away from my check ride and will be taking additional training in the Mooney to gain the proficiency required for a complex aircraft once licensed. 

I am looking for the best rates possible for my insurance coverage. 

As I am currently a student pilot the offers I am getting will not reduce once I am licensed as the policy's fall under a different guideline and will not adjust mid stream.

Are there any Mooney specific insurers that I should know about and/or who are your recommendations that I can reach out to for coverage?

Much appreciated.

 

[rbridges]

Are you really that close to your checkride?  You may want to buy the plane/get insurance after you get your ticket.  I got my instrument rating shortly after paying for the year, and my company made no adjustments.  I found pretty reasonable rates with my mooney the first year, but I had my PPL.  IMO, your premium will be quite a bit higher as a student, and I can't see you switching planes at this point for your checkride.  

[KSMooniac]

Finish your licence first, then get a Mooney owner policy. I've had great service from Hardy Aviation Insurance in Wichita for 10 years. They are brokers as well as owners and pilots, and will work to get a great deal.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[peevee]

I like falcon insurance for mooneys

[smccray]

What does your broker say about the rate as compared to the rate after you're a private pilot?  You're probably stuck with your existing broker (vs. going to Falcon) for at least a year.

Edited October 23, 2017 by smccray

[MrRodgers]

Just started the process yesterday without a broker.  I am open to any and all possibilities.

I'll be keeping the plane at Santa Monica for as long as they keep the airport open.

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by MrRodgers

[Jeff H.]

I was in your exact position when I bought my Rocket before getting my PPL.  Your two best options are Falcon and AOPA.   

- Falcon has been great, no issues, no terrible restrictions imposed.  www.falconinsurance.com

- AOPA is the fall back - you'll get insurance, it will just be approximately the same cost as the value of your plane.  (just kidding . . . although not by much)

Really, just call Falcon - they're great and they will take good care of you.

[kris_adams]

Maybe even have the broker run the insurance both ways.  covering it now and post checkride...of course if you have a note on it, I'm sure the bank will want it covered immediately.

[RobertGary1]

It really should not make any difference what broker you call. Any legitimate broker wil price the same underwriters. So you only care about the level of service you'll get from the broker. Personally I like Southwest Aviation.

 

-Robert

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, Jeff H. said:

I was in your exact position when I bought my Rocket before getting my PPL.  Your two best options are Falcon and AOPA.   

- Falcon has been great, no issues, no terrible restrictions imposed.  www.falconinsurance.com

 

Falcon is just brokering for the underwriter. Its the underwriter who dictates the restrictions. All legitimate brokers will price the same undewritters. 

-Robert

[Raptor05121]

Two weeks until checkride? I'd wait. If you get coverage as a student, It'll be around $500-$900 more simply because of the "student" part.

[smccray]

Problem with waiting is that a seller isn’t going to wait to close. Can you accelerate your check ride assuming you’re ready?

the alternative is to buy a non-movement policy and i’d bet Don will push it into the grass for you for a couple weeks. That said I doubt it will save you any $.

Do you have another pilot you can put on the policy?  Leave your yourself off the policy altogether, then add yourself as a pilot after you finish the ticket. 

[smccray]

Oh- and don’t cheat on the insurance- don’t fly it and don’t receive instruction in the plane until after you’re covered!

[Raptor05121]

9 minutes ago, smccray said:

Oh- and don’t cheat on the insurance- don’t fly it and don’t receive instruction in the plane until after you’re covered!

Yes! Since we were doing a mini-restoration on my plane, I did not buy insurance for it. It came out of annual and when the IA told me it was ready to fly, it was past 5pm and I couldn't call the insurance company. I let the mechanic and a CFI take it up for a post-maintenance shakedown and they came back and landed fine. As they taxied in, the gear handle wasn't locked and popped out of the socket! They both caught it with four hands and shoved it back into place. If they had not caught it, my plane would have been totaled. Insurance wasn't enacted until the next day.

[Skates97]

54 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

It really should not make any difference what broker you call. Any legitimate broker wil price the same underwriters. So you only care about the level of service you'll get from the broker. Personally I like Southwest Aviation.

-Robert

I found it was worth getting quotes from multiple brokers. I got quotes from Falcon (their USAA Department) and two or three others. They all had underwriting through Starr but all had different rates and different requirements for the dual. I was able to go back to Falcon with what the others had quoted and Falcon went back to the underwriters and reduced their quote.

I wanted to stay with Falcon because that was who my renters policy was through while getting my PPL. By staying with them when I bought the Mooney a few months after my check-ride they gave me a credit on the remaining portion of my renters policy (about 9 months left on it) and applied it towards my owner's insurance.

[bradp]

Falcon has been good to me from day one in my Mooney.  

[carusoam]

Falcon held my hand through the first Mooney ownership experience....

17years, two Mooneys, and an IR... Falcon is still my go to resource for aviation insurance.

Your second year of Mooney ownership costs about 1amu less than your first year....

A lot of the cost seems to cover the people inside the plane not so much the cost of the plane.

You might see a restriction that includes something like 10 dual instruction with an additional 10 hours of solo flight, prior to carrying passengers...

Definitely read what is covered and not covered.  Know what the agreed value is....   

PP thoughts, not an insurance salesman...

Best regards,

-a-

[peevee]

3 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I found it was worth getting quotes from multiple brokers. I got quotes from Falcon (their USAA Department) and two or three others. They all had underwriting through Starr but all had different rates and different requirements for the dual. I was able to go back to Falcon with what the others had quoted and Falcon went back to the underwriters and reduced their quote.

I wanted to stay with Falcon because that was who my renters policy was through while getting my PPL. By staying with them when I bought the Mooney a few months after my check-ride they gave me a credit on the remaining portion of my renters policy (about 9 months left on it) and applied it towards my owner's insurance.

It kind of isn't, they all sell the same policies and after awhile it works against you as in finding out

[Skates97]

2 hours ago, peevee said:

It kind of isn't, they all sell the same policies and after awhile it works against you as in finding out

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. I sent inquiries to several brokers in addition to my current broker. They all  went to their underwriters who apparently were the same.  They came back with different rates and requirements for the dual training. I talked with my current broker and gave them the information from the others. My current broker contacted the underwriter again, spoke with a supervisor, and came back with better rate than what they initially had. To top it off they gave me back a credit for the almost nine months left on my renters policy. Explain how that is working against me? 

[AZM20C]

Early this year I purchased my insurance through AOPA. They were the best price for me at the time. I researched 4 or 5 companies. They were a little less than Falcon. It was for a 1974 M20C. $1788/yr. I had 250 hrs. total, and I think almost exactly 50 hrs in a complex AC, no instrument rating, and no previous Mooney time. I love my Mooney. Do your research and good luck to you. 

[peevee]

6 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. I sent inquiries to several brokers in addition to my current broker. They all  went to their underwriters who apparently were the same.  They came back with different rates and requirements for the dual training. I talked with my current broker and gave them the information from the others. My current broker contacted the underwriter again, spoke with a supervisor, and came back with better rate than what they initially had. To top it off they gave me back a credit for the almost nine months left on my renters policy. Explain how that is working against me? 

There are only so many underwriters. At some point when they get requests from multiple brokers for the same plane they stop quoting it. If you give the same info to the brokers you should get the same quotes from the same underwriters. The broker doesn't have anything to do with setting the training requirements 

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, peevee said:

There are only so many underwriters. At some point when they get requests from multiple brokers for the same plane they stop quoting it. If you give the same info to the brokers you should get the same quotes from the same underwriters. The broker doesn't have anything to do with setting the training requirements 

Then don't shop around if you don't want to, but I still will. It saved me about $400 on my insurance last year even though they were all given the same information. 

The fact is that different brokers will get you different rates from the same underwriters. Some will cut part of their commissions, some have better books of business (size and risk pool)  that enable them to get at better rate from the underwriter than the next broker, there are a number of reasons that they can come back with different rates. 

When given the other quotes,  my broker at Falcon went back to the underwriter, talked with a supervisor and reduced their quote to me as well as getting the underwriter to reduce the number of hours dual instruction required. 

[peevee]

I talked to falcon. They're the ones that told me that. They were 2k higher on the sr22

[Skates97]

I will have to look back and see which ones I talked to. Falcon was initially higher than a couple of others but reduced their premium when given the  other quotes.

There was another that when I told them the quotes I had said they couldn't do better, but then told me how to go back to Falcon and use those quotes to get the rate reduced. They were also the one that told me to ask for the remaining portion of my renters policy to be credited back to me. All they said was next year to give them a chance to quote me. I'll find the name later when I'm on my computer and not my phone and post it. That broker was the most helpful even though they weren't getting my business at the time. 

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

Then don't shop around if you don't want to, but I still will. It saved me about $400 on my insurance last year even though they were all given the same information. 

The fact is that different brokers will get you different rates from the same underwriters. Some will cut part of their commissions, some have better books of business (size and risk pool)  that enable them to get at better rate from the underwriter than the next broker, there are a number of reasons that they can come back with different rates. 

When given the other quotes,  my broker at Falcon went back to the underwriter, talked with a supervisor and reduced their quote to me as well as getting the underwriter to reduce the number of hours dual instruction required. 

I would be shocked if any broker would cut their commission, and in some states I'd bet its not legal. If you're getting different rates from different brokers its because they're tweaking the parameters, reducing liability, etc. The quotes are 99% computer generated so any rate difference between brokers is because they put something else in the computer. If you are in a very uncommon situation its possible a broker may be able to negotiate different training requirements but not different rates.

-Robert

Edited October 24, 2017 by RobertGary1