Engine TBO

[Caio]

Hey guys, I am new in this group. I’m looking to buy a Mooney that has around 50hrs available to reach 2000hrs.

 

I know that for Part 91 the TBO is on condition and the compression are all around 76. The plane is found thru the annual at this moment.

 

What’s you guys opinion on keep flying after the 2000hrs (on condition) ?

 

 

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[LANCECASPER]

As long as you (1) buy it right, and (2) have the money for a reman engine ($65000 with install, etc) or at least for a complete overhaul (at the very least $40000 with install, etc) in reserve and (3)  it's got good compressions, why not? But if you are cutting it close financially on the purchase and then a few months into you need an engine overhaul without any money saved up that could be bad.

[Caio]

As long as you (1) buy it right, and (2) have the money for a reman engine ($65000 with install, etc) or at least for a complete overhaul (at the very least $40000 with install, etc) in reserve and (3)  it's got good compressions, why not? But if you are cutting it close financially on the purchase and then a few months into you need an engine overhaul without any money saved up that could be bad.

I agree with you on the 3 issues


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[smccray]

Agree as well- if it’s the plane in Boise you might do some research on the brakes. See Don’s post here: 

 

[gsxrpilot]

You have to buy it as if it needs an engine today. Anything else and you've paid too much.

Assuming you buy it right, then certainly fly it as long as you can before you do the engine. But if you buy it with flying it beyond TBO as part of the calculation, you're a fool.

[Caio]

Agree as well- if it’s the plane in Boise you might do some research on the brakes. See Don’s post here: 
 

Thank you. It’s not this one in Boise. But it’s good to keep eyes open


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[Caio]

You have to buy it as if it needs an engine today. Anything else and you've paid too much.
Assuming you buy it right, then certainly fly it as long as you can before you do the engine. But if you buy it with flying it beyond TBO as part of the calculation, you're a fool.

Sure ! All the depreciation must be applied right now.


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[gsxrpilot]

2 minutes ago, Caio said:

Sure ! All the depreciation must be applied right now.

 

This is actually a good position to be in. I'd rather buy a plane at TBO with the price of an engine figured into the deal, than buy one with a fresh overhaul. That way I get to make the decisions on shop, timing, etc...

[Caio]

This is actually a good position to be in. I'd rather buy a plane at TBO with the price of an engine figured into the deal, than buy one with a fresh overhaul. That way I get to make the decisions on shop, timing, etc...

AFIRM


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[carusoam]

Yes you can...

Yes other people do it...

The more you flew the plane before TBO, the more comfortable you are flying it past TBO. If your first flight is at 1950 hrs, that opportunity has sailed....

How mechanically inclined are you...?

How well do recognize things that are wearing and failing...?

How much plane ownership do you have..?

Do you change the starters and alternators on your automobiles yourself? Does your favorite ride already have 200kmi on the odometer..?

By the time an engine is reaching TBO, all the things related to it are fully worn as well.

See the log books.  What has been changed or updated, overhauled or whatever...

Also look to see if the plane has had any idle time. Only a Few hours in the last year... or living outside are not helpful statistics...

If it is at TBO and it hasn't flown in a year, it still has the original starter, alternator, turbo, exhaust and fuel injection system... you are only getting the core value...

I am a big fan of flying past TBO.  But only when knowing the plane really well. Getting it at 1950 hrs. isn't enough time to get to know it at all...

Pass on this one.  It is better for somebody else.

A Bravo takes some skill to purchase, Expect a PPI from a Mooney shop to be well worth the money spent. Expect a recommendation for transition training when it comes to flying the Bravo as well...

Any hint to who the previous owner is?  How they flew it? Engine monitor info?

Some owners don't mind flying in fire breathing dragon mode.  Go fast, at the cost of a set of cylinders and some exhaust parts.  Others are strict engine temperature managers, intentionally making all parts last as long as possible. Both are acceptable, but one is a better opportunity to buy from....

Has anyone bought that bravo that got major wing surgery..?

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Raptor05121]

I bought my plane with 1700SMOH, I'm probably a few hrs shy of 2,000 right now. Keep in mind compressions are pretty much useless numbers. Do an oil analysis, cut open the filter, borescope when you can, etc. I'm lucky enough my lower end only has 700 hrs on it so I have zero concerns about cam/crank corrosion on my bird and feel confident about it reaching 2500SMOH with zero issues. (knock on wood).

[Caio]

Yes you can...
Yes other people do it...
The more you flew the plane before TBO, the more comfortable you are flying it past TBO. If your first flight is at 1950 hrs, that opportunity has sailed....
How mechanically inclined are you...?
How well do recognize things that are wearing and failing...?
How much plane ownership do you have..?
Do you change the starters and alternators on your automobiles yourself? Does your favorite ride already have 200kmi on the odometer..?
By the time an engine is reaching TBO, all the things related to it are fully worn as well.
See the log books.  What has been changed or updated, overhauled or whatever...
Also look to see if the plane has had any idle time. Only a Few hours in the last year... or living outside are not helpful statistics...
If it is at TBO and it hasn't flown in a year, it still has the original starter, alternator, turbo, exhaust and fuel injection system... you are only getting the core value...
I am a big fan of flying past TBO.  But only when knowing the plane really well. Getting it at 1950 hrs. isn't enough time to get to know it at all...
Pass on this one.  It is better for somebody else.
A Bravo takes some skill to purchase, Expect a PPI from a Mooney shop to be well worth the money spent. Expect a recommendation for transition training when it comes to flying the Bravo as well...
Any hint to who the previous owner is?  How they flew it? Engine monitor info?
Some owners don't mind flying in fire breathing dragon mode.  Go fast, at the cost of a set of cylinders and some exhaust parts.  Others are strict engine temperature managers, intentionally making all parts last as long as possible. Both are acceptable, but one is a better opportunity to buy from....
Has anyone bought that bravo that got major wing surgery..?
 
PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...
Best regards,
-a-

Thank you for the details on your answer. I’ve owned couple of planes before, the last one was completing 2000hrs so I sent it directly to overhaul. I didn’t flew before the TBO but is clear that the job was well performed, the engine runs smooth.

I don’t see a diference between flying this plane now with 1950hrs or 1200hrs, as long as a good pre-purchase is performed, I think I will be safe. Of course the funds for an immediate TBO should be in hand. And as mentioned I would like to fly as much as possible before doing the TBO.

It’s very hard to know how the previous owner/owners treat the plane by knowing their flying behavior, I think no one in this forum knew that when they bought their planes. This is something we learn by the plane/engine conditions.

Once again, thank you for helping me.



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[Caio]

I bought my plane with 1700SMOH, I'm probably a few hrs shy of 2,000 right now. Keep in mind compressions are pretty much useless numbers. Do an oil analysis, cut open the filter, borescope when you can, etc. I'm lucky enough my lower end only has 700 hrs on it so I have zero concerns about cam/crank corrosion on my bird and feel confident about it reaching 2500SMOH with zero issues. (knock on wood).

Roger that !!! Tks


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[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, Caio said:

It’s very hard to know how the previous owner/owners treat the plane by knowing their flying behavior, I think no one in this forum knew that when they bought their planes. This is something we learn by the plane/engine conditions.

 

It's been said more than a few times on this forum that one should evaluate the owner as much as one evaluates the airplane. I know I did a lot of "owner" shopping when looking for my 252. I asked a lot of questions of the owner and the owner's mechanic regarding the way he flew the plane. I also asked about the engine monitor and how he used it. This told me a lot about the chances of the engine continuing to TBO. Unfortunately though if buying through a broker, that information might not be available at all.

Personally I wouldn't buy an airplane that didn't have an engine monitor in it, and from an owner who knows how to use it. Unless of course, I was buying it to immediately overhaul or replace the engine. If my 252 is ever up for sale, it will come with a full record of engine monitor data from every flight I've made.

[Caio]

It's been said more than a few times on this forum that one should evaluate the owner as much as one evaluates the airplane. I know I did a lot of "owner" shopping when looking for my 252. I asked a lot of questions of the owner and the owner's mechanic regarding the way he flew the plane. I also asked about the engine monitor and how he used it. This told me a lot about the chances of the engine continuing to TBO. Unfortunately though if buying through a broker, that information might not be available at all.
Personally I wouldn't buy an airplane that didn't have an engine monitor in it, and from an owner who knows how to use it. Unless of course, I was buying it to immediately overhaul or replace the engine. If my 252 is ever up for sale, it will come with a full record of engine monitor data from every flight I've made.

That’s the case, it’s thru a dealers so there won’t be too much valuable info about previous owners.

And the plane has only the original engine steam gauges, no JPI unfortunately.

Hard decision...

[gsxrpilot]

1 minute ago, Caio said:

 

That’s the case, it’s thru a dealers so there won’t be too much valuable info about previous owners.

And the plane has only the original engine steam gauges, no JPI unfortunately.

Hard decision...

 

Yep, but if you're buying it with a run out engine already, the engine monitor and how the previous owner ran the engine isn't really important. So you should be ok, as long as the price is right :-)

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Caio said:

 

That’s the case, it’s thru a dealers so there won’t be too much valuable info about previous owners.

And the plane has only the original engine steam gauges, no JPI unfortunately.

Hard decision...

 

You'll see some information about the airplane here: 

 

 

[Bravoman]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Yep, but if you're buying it with a run out engine already, the engine monitor and how the previous owner ran the engine isn't really important. So you should be ok, as long as the price is right :-)

Agreed from the economic standpoint. Perhaps a different matter if he’s using it as an IFR traveling machine.

[Caio]

You'll see some information about the airplane here: 
[/url]  
 

You nailed it !!!!

I read all the discussions and seems pretty solid.

Owner is AP 25,000+ hours, said that change oil every 25hrs, always did analysis and never found any metal, let keep studying.

Thank you


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[M016576]

11 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

It's been said more than a few times on this forum that one should evaluate the owner as much as one evaluates the airplane. I know I did a lot of "owner" shopping when looking for my 252. I asked a lot of questions of the owner and the owner's mechanic regarding the way he flew the plane. I also asked about the engine monitor and how he used it. This told me a lot about the chances of the engine continuing to TBO. Unfortunately though if buying through a broker, that information might not be available at all.

Personally I wouldn't buy an airplane that didn't have an engine monitor in it, and from an owner who knows how to use it. Unless of course, I was buying it to immediately overhaul or replace the engine. If my 252 is ever up for sale, it will come with a full record of engine monitor data from every flight I've made.

That’s a great point about the engine monitor and evaluating the owner.

ive had engine monitors installed in both my mooneys- but haven’t had a single person actually ask me for their logs when either was on sale.

makes me wonder.... I don’t think any owner goes out there and says “I’m really going to run this motor hard and trash it!”... yet every pilot I’ve met, to the one, says that other pilots do exactly that (run their motors incorrectly/too hard).  So where are all these “bad engine runners.”  Kind of like below average drivers on the road... or below average pilots in the sky.  I haven’t met too many people that would say they are either... yet half of us are!

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, M016576 said:

That’s a great point about the engine monitor and evaluating the owner.

ive had engine monitors installed in both my mooneys- but haven’t had a single person actually ask me for their logs when either was on sale.

makes me wonder.... I don’t think any owner goes out there and says “I’m really going to run this motor hard and trash it!”... yet every pilot I’ve met, to the one, says that other pilots do exactly that (run their motors incorrectly/too hard).  So where are all these “bad engine runners.”  Kind of like below average drivers on the road... or below average pilots in the sky.  I haven’t met too many people that would say they are either... yet half of us are!

In Lake Wobegone, All of the children are above average.