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Acclaim 310 hp STC issues


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The changing of the tach on the G-1000 display to 2700 is not a manipulation, it is a selection.  Since they are an MSC they should be able to consult the factory quite easily.  Also, not sure how the TN fuel flow works on the ground but if similar to the IO-550 Ovation we are running 27-28 + or - gph on take off.  I would expect the same fuel flow at a given rpm assuming same temps, MP, etc.  Am I wrong?  27" and 2300rpm was 13gph it should be the same after the governor spring swap.  Hope they got your fuel flows correct. 

Russ

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  • 2 months later...
1 hour ago, exM20K said:

wound up with a JPI Mini under the prop control.  I'll post up a picture when I get back to the hangar.

The verdict on 310HP: Totally Awesome.  At approx 3100#, I was able to sustain 1700-2300 FPM @ 120 KIAS all the way to 16,000.

 

2018-01-13_1551.png

Great performance no doubt, but I think people find that operating single engine turbo charged airplanes at their max performance continuously means that they'll be changing cylinders every 500 hours.

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30 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Great performance no doubt, but I think people find that operating single engine turbo charged airplanes at their max performance continuously means that they'll be changing cylinders every 500 hours.

I wonder if all the acclaim top ends were because of low FF and low IAS climbs vs actual power output. 

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4 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Great performance no doubt, but I think people find that operating single engine turbo charged airplanes at their max performance continuously means that they'll be changing cylinders every 500 hours.

It’s 100% relative to what right?   I mean my particular engine the tsio520nb derived from the Cessna 340 and 414 twins is often rated 325 or 335 hp but it’s down rated to 305 in my airplane.

fuel flow setting at 100% is much higher (and extra ooomph of fuel) so at full power 32gph it cools well on a hot days climb where as at cruise climb setting 27gph it gets hot after awhile.

in winter though it climbs so ferociously even at cruise climb and it doesn’t get hot in very cold weather, I just take it easy at 85%.

 

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11 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Great performance no doubt, but I think people find that operating single engine turbo charged airplanes at their max performance continuously means that they'll be changing cylinders every 500 hours.

More likely when operating  a Continental engine with factory steel cylinders, failure of cylinders on Lycoming engines is rare.

RAM nickel cylinders hold up much better than any othe Continental cylinders I’ve encountered.

Clarence 

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On 10/15/2017 at 12:09 PM, Shadrach said:

Indeed I've done these as well when solo. It climbs flat like it's on an elevator with remarkable gradient.

 

+1.  Quick get outa Dodge manoeuvre.  But no good for much beyond the end of the runway.

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9 hours ago, carusoam said:

0 to the flight levels in under 10 minutes....

That’s a lot of climbs to altitude in 500 hours! :)

 

X-K, what's all the directional changes, climbing in a circle?

Was that a full mixture run, or white box TIT on the G1000?

Amazing,

-a-

Once we finally got the ff set up correctly, full rich get was unremarkably low.  I'd have to pull the flight data to put a number on it. 

 

I flew in circles because my wanted to stay near the field while doing the first hour or two on the cylinders.  This was a fairly extensive overhaul that took three attempts to get right (they said it was done, but it wasn't. )

 

will i I climb it this way all the time? I dunno.  I'll talk to Walter and John at APS.  From a wear and tear perspective, it's probably minimal. The engine runs at 2700 on the Cessna TTX and SR22T just fine. Mostly I did it to shorten summertime takeoff runs at our little 2500' strip.  Mission accomplished on that matter. 

 

-Dan 

Edited by exM20K
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13 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Great performance no doubt, but I think people find that operating single engine turbo charged airplanes at their max performance continuously means that they'll be changing cylinders every 500 hours.

I'm going to disagree with you on that point.  I'm an APS acolyte, having drunk from the LOP cup many years ago when I owned a 231.  If they are correct, then detonation is the primary operating wear factor.  Full rich, high RPM, provided that the fuel flow is set properly, offers huge detonation margins.  Further, they will tell you that "pulling it back" to a cruise climb power settings typically yields higher CHT's and internal cylinder pressures.  Ditto 50* ROP, which is Mooney's recommended Best Power setting.

 

 

Most continentals will require a mid-life top overhaul. You just bake that into the financial cake, and if yours doesn't: bonus! Go buy a bass boat.  Mine made it to 850, though there was some early valve work by CMI. Since I've owned the plane for only 150 hours, I don't know much about how it was operated for most of its life.   However, I plan to keep this plane (PA46 is too slow in climb and too big for what I have in my hangar), and the tuned induction TSIO550 runs beautifully as lean as you'd like. 

Interestingly, my top overhaul was done because of high oil consumption  turns out the engine must have sat somewhere wet, as all six jugs were corroded   Thankfully, the corrosion was limited to cylinders, and they were reusable.  When we had it apart, the shop noticed wrist pins out of spec, and the con rod bushings had been pounded out of shape too.  I'm glad we did the top.

If I do overhaul at TBO 2200, and between now and then, it will be run 60-100* LOP and probably full power climb. I'll have a single datapoint to support or not th APS way  

-dan

 

 

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14 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Great performance no doubt, but I think people find that operating single engine turbo charged airplanes at their max performance continuously means that they'll be changing cylinders every 500 hours.

Why?

I hear this a lot but I don't understand the physics behind it? What is happening to cause the cylinders to need replacement?

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With my NA IO550 I Always Climb ROP...  easier to keep out of the red box as my MP is always changing... time of climb is measured in minutes...

 

Dan,

Have you tried LOP climbs with your more stable MP?

+1 310hp... Great for the shortish runway!

+1 LOP...

+1 well balanced intakes and FIs...

+1 Prop balance...

+1 APS and the instrumented work they have done with the IO550.

 

+1 Next steps...  turbine Mooney...  :) (watching Jerry and his PA46T)

+1 PlanA...  PlanB, buy a bass boat (When cylinders go To TBO)

 

Break-in flights are a blast. 10 hours (or so) of high power, keep the cylinders cold, because it is good for the machine... and soul...

Best regards,

-a-

 

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3 hours ago, Cruiser said:

Why?

I hear this a lot but I don't understand the physics behind it? What is happening to cause the cylinders to need replacement?

Some reasons I collected over the years...

(1) Hard running, full power, 50°F ROP, sending CHTs well beyond 380°F...

(2) Some pilots swap a few cylinders out to enjoy the higher speeds... as a cost of doing business..?

(3) Many pilots watch the CHTs closely, fly often, and stay on the same cylinders...for decades and (2) thousands of hours...

(4) Pixie hole, for cylinder #5.

(6) Elevated FF for full rich T/O...

(7) Climbing following the blue box or white box for G1000

(8) All have the <380°F CHT (soft target) recommendation, if possible, kind of thing...

(9) If all goes well, you save enough dough, a bass boat may be in your future...  :)

 

It takes a fair amount of effort to Keep engine management under this tight control.

  • physical effort, additional multi-tasking, through all phases of flight...
  • Cognitive effort, Deep ROP, FF is a larger expense...

There may be two sides to the pilot’s brain... The go fast side, and the go efficiently (fuel and parts costs) side... it is more fun/calming (for some) using the go fast part of the brain.  You can recognize this for yourself when you have to fly low, at High MP, during cylinder break-in flights... there is no economic prize for not breaking in the cylinders properly...  (I also brought a Mooney CFII along for these flights...in the event of an engine out at low altitude, I didn't want to be alone... explored hundreds of miles of beaches on the Jersey shore)

That kind of thing, covers a lot, I believe...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

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5 hours ago, carusoam said:

With my NA IO550 I Always Climb ROP...  easier to keep out of the red box as my MP is always changing... time of climb is measured in minutes...

 

Dan,

Have you tried LOP climbs with your more stable MP?

+1 310hp... Great for the shortish runway!

+1 LOP...

+1 well balanced intakes and FIs...

+1 Prop balance...

+1 APS and the instrumented work they have done with the IO550.

 

+1 Next steps...  turbine Mooney...  :) (watching Jerry and his PA46T)

+1 PlanA...  PlanB, buy a bass boat (When cylinders go Tom TBO)

 

Break-in flights are a blast. 10 hours (or so) of high power, keep the cylinders cold, because it is good for the machine... and soul...

Best regards,

-a-

 

Haven't tried LOP climb - might, but enjoying the big climb rate at full power.

Did get to fly a TBM930 with a friend today - super impressive aircraft and short field capable.  Now... to work out the CAPEX and the fuel situation.... Garmin NXi is mostly intuitive for me with thousands of G1000 hours.  For someone coming from the new Garmin 650 / 750 panel mounts, it would probably be more so.

-dan

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  • 4 years later...
On 11/7/2017 at 4:32 PM, Mooneymuscle56m said:

Hello Everyone

I told the guys at the Mooney Service Center that I didn’t want the external tach that it was a deal breaker for me.

At my request, they figured out a way to manipulate the G1000 to display to 2700 redline start to 2800 redline end.  They mentioned that when I ever sell the plane there might be a issue and I may have to add a tach.  For now I am very happy with this MSC.  

My feedback on the 310 HP stc:

Positives

Wow!  Take off and climb are a massive improvement,  mine is heavy with air conditioning, not much useful load.  You can really feel pushing in the last inch.  

Negatives   

My fuel burn on take off was 27gph, now 33gph.  More power more fuel, I get it.

I expected the previous power settings of 25-27 inches to 2300rpm that I used to run  13ish gph is now 15ish gph 50 LOP.  

The fact is the Acclaim is an awesome machine with 280hp.  When I first flew one, I couldn’t imagine anything better.  

Overall I don’t regret the decision.  I think mooney must have weighed all the variables when they decided not to roll the Acclaim out with 310hp, or maybe they are saving that card until the competition catches up. 

Reviving an old thread here.

@Mooneymuscle56m did they have to use the Ovation3 G1000 software to get yours to display 2700 rpm? (Does it show "Acclaim" or "Ovation 3" on your startup screen?)

The reason I ask is that I don't want to lose the TIT indication on my engine page if I decide to do this STC on the Acclaim. (Ovations don't have TIT since they don't have turbos)

@mike_elliott Of all of the 310hp Acclaims you've flown have you seen any with the 2700 rpm and the Acclaim startup screen?

Thanks!

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28 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

I have seen them. I think Paul Maxwell sets them up like that now, but he would be the better one to ask what he does and its' legality. 

Thanks Mike. I was hoping that someone has been able to hack the engine parameters on the G1000 and just adjust the redline on the tach to 2700. Hopefully Paul has figured that out.

On the Ovation I had that I upgraded back in 2014 to 310hp it had a JPI 930 for primary instruments. JPI was able to adjust redline to 2700 after we sent them a copy of the STC. They just emailed out a file for Brian Kendrick to upload to the JPI 930. Of course Garmin doesn't quite work like JPI does :)

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11 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Reviving an old thread here.

@Mooneymuscle56m did they have to use the Ovation3 G1000 software to get yours to display 2700 rpm? (Does it show "Acclaim" or "Ovation 3" on your startup screen?)

The reason I ask is that I don't want to lose the TIT indication on my engine page if I decide to do this STC on the Acclaim. (Ovations don't have TIT since they don't have turbos)

@mike_elliott Of all of the 310hp Acclaims you've flown have you seen any with the 2700 rpm and the Acclaim startup screen?

Thanks!


Lance,

Good news…

The Ovation happens to have a TIT already mis-labeled for that…

The Os use a seventh EGT as the ship’s EGT gauge…

The G1000 has always been mislabeled as TIT and never got straightened out… :)
 

Technically the EGT sensor resides at the end of a set of three exhaust streams on one side of the engine… (?)

We have a really good resource with O3 power in their G1000 equipped Ovation… with a great memory of all the bits and pieces….

Odd PP memories only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

 

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