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Gear Donut Replacement (labor time)


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Getting close to annual and thinking of having the gear pucks replaced while it's there. I think mine are dated 96.

Anybody recently had them done (replaced) and remember, or have a number of labor hours they were billed for?. Not talking about owner assisted etc.. I know the donuts are $100 +/- each. Looking for a rough labor number, or hours you were charged?

Thanks,

 

-Tom

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On 10/11/2017 at 3:44 PM, MIm20c said:

I think ~2 amu for parts and labor.

I just had mine done. $100/nut, 10 hrs labor at $75/per. So, $1,850. 

I don't know why it took 10 hours, the shop has extensive M20 experience, but on a 52 YO orthopedic work is always time consuming.

My landings have improved significantly ;) as well as ground handling--can't complain.

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10 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Take it to someone who has done it a lot of times and it should be cheaper. I had a local guy (Non Mooney expert) quote me 10 hours once and Dugosh did it for 4 or 5 hours. It's better not to pay for someone's learning on your airplane.

Thanks for all the replies..I agree with what you all are saying. I don't think he has done one prior, not going to pay for his learning curve. He called and told me he researched it and said from what he can tell he is seeing hours all over the place from 15-25 hrs, plus the tool rental of $150. He priced the donuts at $125 each. Don't think he will be doing it for me. These guys are great with avionics and very thorough, but sometimes I think get overly thorough when it comes to mechanical.

I did check with another local shop and they said they could do it, but really after looking at mine they thought mine were in very good shape and said unless I just really wanted to have them changed my current ones would be good for several more years. I like it when a shop gives opinions of what you really need and not just what you think you might need.

Not to mention I've been following thread about trading from a C to a 231..There is a 231 I'm watching coming out of resurrection from the ugly to modern.  I'm watching pros/cons and learning from the replies. Don't want to put un-necessary work in on my E if the 231 turns into a option for me when it's finally complete in spring.

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1 hour ago, TWinter said:

Thanks for all the replies..I agree with what you all are saying. I don't think he has done one prior, not going to pay for his learning curve. He called and told me he researched it and said from what he can tell he is seeing hours all over the place from 15-25 hrs, plus the tool rental of $150. He priced the donuts at $125 each. Don't think he will be doing it for me. These guys are great with avionics and very thorough, but sometimes I think get overly thorough when it comes to mechanical.

I did check with another local shop and they said they could do it, but really after looking at mine they thought mine were in very good shape and said unless I just really wanted to have them changed my current ones would be good for several more years. I like it when a shop gives opinions of what you really need and not just what you think you might need.

Some comments:

If the gear is in good condition, it is basically a mechanistic swap out of old worn parts for new ones. If the gear is 50+ years old, there may be some issues that eat up time (corroded nuts, worn bearings, etc.).

The process requires special equipment and that equipment is only used for the purpose of taking donuts off and on. The rest of the time, that investment sits idle. There is also some complexity in using the tools.

There is a very specific test for when the donuts need to be replaced. Just saying 'they look fine to me' or 'boy are they ragged looking' is not the criteria of condition.

When faced with these sorts of things, I consider what it would take for me to do the job myself. I examined the process, watched a video on YouTube, looked at buying the nuts, renting the tools, the risks associated with 'plane on jacks' repairs, etc., etc., and decided that what I paid was a bargain. :P

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1 hour ago, TWinter said:

Thanks for all the replies..I agree with what you all are saying. I don't think he has done one prior, not going to pay for his learning curve. He called and told me he researched it and said from what he can tell he is seeing hours all over the place from 15-25 hrs, plus the tool rental of $150. He priced the donuts at $125 each. Don't think he will be doing it for me. These guys are great with avionics and very thorough, but sometimes I think get overly thorough when it comes to mechanical.

I did check with another local shop and they said they could do it, but really after looking at mine they thought mine were in very good shape and said unless I just really wanted to have them changed my current ones would be good for several more years. I like it when a shop gives opinions of what you really need and not just what you think you might need.

Not to mention I've been following thread about trading from a C to a 231..There is a 231 I'm watching coming out of resurrection from the ugly to modern.  I'm watching pros/cons and learning from the replies. Don't want to put un-necessary work in on my E if the 231 turns into a option for me when it's finally complete in spring.

If you decide to keep the E, 20 years of the weight of the airplane sitting on the shock discs plus the extra load of landings plus they just become harder over time would make it worth changing. It feels like a new airplane when you are taxiing with new discs.

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We change a lot of those when getting Mooneys ferry able and never seem to have tools with us.   We simply jack that wheel on mains and use a 3 in strap.  Nose is a little easier to get to with wheel off.  strap from axle to truss and pull down. compresses nicely and after removing the collar let off the strap and change donuts.  guide the tube when going back up.  We take 30 minutes per gear leg.  the only time we used the rental tools, we ended up with those thrown out of the way and went back to the strap.  and of course the method referred to above to determine if you need donuts is to jack the plane and see if there is space on top of the donuts with gear hanging in mid air. 

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17 minutes ago, acpartswhse said:

We change a lot of those when getting Mooneys ferry able and never seem to have tools with us.   We simply jack that wheel on mains and use a 3 in strap.  Nose is a little easier to get to with wheel off.  strap from axle to truss and pull down. compresses nicely and after removing the collar let off the strap and change donuts.  guide the tube when going back up.  We take 30 minutes per gear leg.  the only time we used the rental tools, we ended up with those thrown out of the way and went back to the strap.  and of course the method referred to above to determine if you need donuts is to jack the plane and see if there is space on top of the donuts with gear hanging in mid air. 

 

Over the years I've always used this same strap method, actual R&R about the same 30-40 min per leg 

Quick and efficient, works like a charm. 

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Can you elaborate on this strap?  I'm guessing it must have a ratchet of some type to tighten the strap with?  Is it something you buy at Harbor Freight?  I've only used the rental tools - not a big fan.  Also, if the job involves swapping out the old Firestone pucks to the Lords - it's a way bigger job.

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the strap can be bought from almost anywhere,   simply a ratchet strap, load binder or ????.  too long for what we are doing but we use them to secure a plane on the trailer also.  if you look at the axle after the wheel is off it will make sense. one end on the upper leg or truss and under the axle and through the ratchet and that to the upper leg or truss.  by ratcheting the strap the axle is pulled up releasing pressure on the donuts.    whole object to the game is to squeeze the donuts in order to get the collar off the upper end of the tube holding donuts.  remove the bolt thru the collar and let off the pressure on the strap

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4 hours ago, acpartswhse said:

whole object to the game is to squeeze the donuts in order to get the collar off the upper end of the tube holding donuts.  remove the bolt thru the collar and let off the pressure on the strap

Does this strap method work for the nose? A buddy told me the mains were easy, but the nose was a bear.

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On 10/14/2017 at 10:08 AM, TWinter said:

Don't want to put un-necessary work in on my E if the 231 turns into a option for me when it's finally complete in spring.

It might be false economy when you go to sell your E and the prebuy recommends you have new gear donuts and the buyer either walks or dings the price anyway. Just something to think about when you start down the road of deferred maintenance. 

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On 10/15/2017 at 12:52 PM, acpartswhse said:

We change a lot of those when getting Mooneys ferry able and never seem to have tools with us.   We simply jack that wheel on mains and use a 3 in strap.  Nose is a little easier to get to with wheel off.  strap from axle to truss and pull down. compresses nicely and after removing the collar let off the strap and change donuts.  guide the tube when going back up.  We take 30 minutes per gear leg.  the only time we used the rental tools, we ended up with those thrown out of the way and went back to the strap.  and of course the method referred to above to determine if you need donuts is to jack the plane and see if there is space on top of the donuts with gear hanging in mid air. 

A series of pics would be welcome if you have any

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