Slowing Her Down...

[Bob_Belville]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I've gone into DAL (Dallas Love) several times and a few of them were IFR. I don't mind shooting the ILS at 100 knots and landing no flaps at the big airports. It keeps me from slowing everyone down too much and the long runways make it easy to roll it on a little faster. Caravan practice helps as well as they are all no flap 90 knot landings.

Over the years I've taken my little M20E into BOS, PHL, IAD, CLT, DTW, MDW, DAL, DFW, MEM, STL... usually alone. Long before formation flying I understood that coming in fast and landing long helps the guy behind you and helps avoid wake turbulence when mixing with the airliners. The toughest thing was always navigating on the ground, particularly at night, pre "Safe Taxi" and moving maps! ATC, tower, and ground at these busiest of the busy are the best.

[Shiny moose]

48 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

Over the years I've taken my little M20E into BOS, PHL, IAD, CLT, DTW, MDW, DAL, DFW, MEM, STL... usually alone. Long before formation flying I understood that coming in fast and landing long helps the guy behind you and helps avoid wake turbulence when mixing with the airliners. The toughest thing was always navigating on the ground, particularly at night, pre "Safe Taxi" and moving maps! ATC, tower, and ground at these busiest of the busy are the best.

I've done lots of flying all over the US, Canada, and Mexico and I agree with you ground operations WERE the hardest thing , but with this IPad stuff and foreflight it has change the world of aviation. I Took a long hiatus from avaition when I came back to fly for fun only, I was amazed at what had transpired 

[pilot_jb]

Wow!  This thread really took off.  Thank you for all of the comments.  Seems to me that the consensus is to allow more time.  I'll get out there and practice at altitude to get a better feel for the time and method required to pull the reins.  

Something that had not occurred to me until reading through all of this is dumping the flaps on takeoff.  Typically, I don't get rid of the flaps until 500AGL.  I'm going to have to also be careful about my airspeed at climb until they're gone as well.  

[bradp]

The entire left side of my fuselage is an awesome speed brake if I need to get down quick in VMC - I can just put it into a forward slip and go down and slow down simultaneously.  I don't do it in IMC or if my passengers aren't experienced flyers (I only take my family on board so they're cool).

Without slipping I u sually I can get 500 fpm as a comfortable descent rate and gain about 20 or so kts in the descent (which I usually appreciate).  Just slowly pull throttle back a little at a time.  Stay in the yellow / green as required and you're comfortable with.  Level off and let the speed bleed.  Just plan your level off.  I usually program 1000AGL or whatever pattern altitude is 3 miles out for my GPS VNAV planner and that has worked very well. 

I've seen a busted flap hinge on a mooney before.  Not pretty and very expensive to fix.  Don't use the flaps - use the throttle or the rudder pedal.  I'd rather put the prop to full flat pitch rather than using the flaps. 

[Bob_Belville]

34 minutes ago, bradp said:

The entire left side of my fuselage is an awesome speed brake if I need to get down quick in VMC - I can just put it into a forward slip and go down and slow down simultaneously.  I don't do it in IMC or if my passengers aren't experienced flyers (I only take my family on board so they're cool).

Okay, but not very elegant. Speed brakes and forward slips are about like driving a car from red light to red light with a digital accelerator - stomp on the gas then stomp on the brakes. It works, but why would you do that when it wastes gas, wears brake pads, and annoys your passengers. OTOH, I know how to slip a Mooney and I have speed brakes, but I never use the former skill and I seldom deploy the latter. Ain't elegant, and ain't necessary. And gets no style points.Push the nose over to red line, pull back the throttle and cash in the energy you paid for climbing. But, it's your privy. 

 

[Bob - S50]

We did an experiment with our J one day.  Flew down the glideslope at 120 KIAS with the gear down.  Then, at a predetermined point we went to idle.  At about 100 KIAS we went full flaps.  It took us about 400' of altitude or a bit over a mile of ground travel to slow to 65 KIAS for final.  That's what I use now if I'm asked to keep my speed up.  However, I may be at idle all the way from 400 AGL to touchdown.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Bob - S50
grammar

[MB65E]

If I'm fast on gear speed I'll level off. If I really need to get down I'll climb for gear speed then drop everything out. Almost impossible to get to gear speed in a decent. 

Climbing to get to gear speed takes less NM than descending to Gear speed. So once everything is out the more altitude I can loose and the farther from the airport I still am. At 165kts, it takes about 7mi for me to slow up to approach speeds. (Negative boards) 

I'll plan my decent in minutes out. With a 500fpm planned decent. Works pretty well unless you need to stay high for a clearance or terrain. 

The Mooney has taught me a lot about planning. You get lazy flying say 182s and other stuff that sinks better. 

-Matt 

[rbridges]

I pull power and nose up to get to gear speed. I can lose speed and altitude much faster with those anchors extended. I never intentionally drop gear or flaps at speeds higher than recommended. 

[bradp]

On 10/13/2017 at 10:32 PM, Bob_Belville said:

Okay, but not very elegant

True.  When your three year old says I need to go potty right now! ... over reading Pa or something then it’s a useful tool.  I also used it when I was diverting for weather outside  AVL coming over the mountains from the west and was kept high by APP.  I used it when my dog got nervous and started hyperventilating at altitude and then had a hypocalcemic seizure (our backseat pax didn’t know he likes to be pet when he goes flying- apparebtlynthat something dogs do).  Go down and slow down.  Sometimes you don’t need pretty and just want effective - it’s just like your car. Sometimes you want a nice ride and fuel efficiency.  Sometimes you should drive it like you stole it (safely and responsibly of course) 

[Bob - S50]

22 hours ago, MB65E said:

If I'm fast on gear speed I'll level off. If I really need to get down I'll climb for gear speed then drop everything out. Almost impossible to get to gear speed in a decent.

We used to do the same thing in the DC9.  Slow down to go down.  Level off, gear, flaps, fall like a rock.  The DC9 was a safe airplane.  Climbed like a safe and came down like a safe.

[jetdriven]

Even with 190 something knot groundspeed if you just level off for 2 1/2 to 3 miles, and set the power to 17",  the airplane whistles right on down to below the 150 MPH Gear limit of the J model. The older ones need another mile or two. 

[bonal]

For us it always depends on situation like yesterday we had to fly high because of the TFR and had to stay high until close to destination RHV tower approved the extended down wind but one on final were still too high but speed was right on so requested a right 360 and when completed and level we were perfect with two red and two white. I'm not sure why some folks have issues with a forward slip lots of the fields we fly to have high hills or low mountains (depending on where your from) close to the runway and a well executed slip is the perfect tool. Never drop flaps or gear above recommended speeds. Also when fast and need to get to gear speed go to low power hold the nose up and we get to gear speed with no gain in altitude. Works every time it's tried.

[Stephen]

On 10/11/2017 at 12:04 PM, Oldguy said:

I use my 430W to plan a 500 fpm descent to get me 3 miles from my destination at an elevation where I can slow and drop to pattern altitude. 

 

Punch the VNAV button on your Garmin 430 or 530....do that and lead the decent rate or decent time a bit to level and slow prior to the patter/fix. 

[Guitarmaster]

Enter downwind at redline. Idle power, high-G (stall warning chattering) downwind/base turn. Gear and flaps on base. Pull hard on the base/final turn. She'll slow down.... Or you may accelerate the stall... There is that.

 

 

 

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