Moving the data plate

[Sean S]

On large aircraft the data plate is affixed to the main entry door jamb.

I would recommend contacting Mooney for information on where the data plate was installed on your aircraft at the factory.

In a previous life I worked at an aircraft salvage operation. The data plates were surrendered to the manufacturer with a certificate of destruction.

[Sabremech]

If you want to make your life difficult, go ahead and educate the FAA about your data tag location. As others suggested, I'd make another one and rivet it back by the tail cone under the left horizontal stab, notify the FAA that you complied with their request and go back to enjoying flying.

David

[Ron McBride]

If I remember correctly, the data tag needs to at the rear off the plane, some owners were mad and located it under the rear fuseladge, double check there.  This was supposed to be legal then, now?

Ron

 

[1964-M20E]

FYI my extra data plate in the rear is on the inspection cover on the tail.\ comes off at every annual and then back on.

[cliffy]

I've never had a problem supping an education where or when it was needed if I knew my subject and I knew I was right.

Educated an FAA type on the ramp at KMDW one day about leaking aft lavs on a 737. It was a toe to toe shouting match. I wound up getting him transferred to a desk job in Texas because he didn't have a clue about what he was talking about. The vast majority of "in the field" FAA types are pretty straight shooters but once in a while you run into a real ass. As Bob Hoover found out.

There are many airplanes flying around today with a small "data tag" riveted to the left rear tail cone area and the for real data plate is somewhere else as installed by the maker.

[Guest]

If/when you install the extra data plate I would make a log book entry covering the work.  You don't want the same inspector citing you for completing un documented maintenance.

If you decide that you won't be doing it you could ask to speak with his supervisor to get clarification on the interpretation of the regulation, support this with a letter from Mooney stating the data plate is in the correct location for your model and serial number.

Clarence

[FloridaMan]

Mine is over the door. We got ramp checked when we were bringing the plane to Willmar. The owner told the FSDO guys that it only need be visible from the ground and they accepted it. 

In software, there's a term called a "duck" that I believe may apply here:

"

5. A Duck

kyoryu

A feature added for no other reason than to draw management attention and be removed, thus avoiding unnecessary changes in other aspects of the product.

I don't know if I actually invented this term or not, but I am certainly not the originator of the story that spawned it.

This started as a piece of Interplay corporate lore. It was well known that producers (a game industry position, roughly equivalent to PMs) had to make a change to everything that was done. The assumption was that subconsciously they felt that if they didn't, they weren't adding value.

The artist working on the queen animations for Battle Chess was aware of this tendency, and came up with an innovative solution. He did the animations for the queen the way that he felt would be best, with one addition: he gave the queen a pet duck. He animated this duck through all of the queen's animations, had it flapping around the corners. He also took great care to make sure that it never overlapped the "actual" animation.

Eventually, it came time for the producer to review the animation set for the queen. The producer sat down and watched all of the animations. When they were done, he turned to the artist and said, "that looks great. Just one thing - get rid of the duck."

https://blog.codinghorror.com/new-programming-jargon/

[cliffy]

Just to be clear- what was required was not a "data plate" but just a short "tag", one line with IIRC make, model, s/n on it. No other info was required for the "extra " tag in back. 

[DonMuncy]

2 hours ago, Antares said:

5. A Duck

kyoryu

 

Apologies for the thread drift. Back when I was racing sports cars, we always had "tech inspection" before we were allowed on the race course. The inspectors (like many other folks) seemed to be pleased when they managed to find something wrong. I developed the habit of leaving an obvious error, like a loose lug nut, for them to find early on (my duck). They then seemed less likely to keep digging.

[StinkBug]

I used to work for an architect building multi-million dollar homes in some of the most tightly controlled real estate in the country. When submitting plans we would often add features that we didn't want, and that we knew the neighbors and planning commission would complain about just so that they wouldn't complain about what we really wanted. 

As for the tag, mine is in the exact same spot in the vent. Thinking about it though, I'm pretty sure there is another tag under the tail that someone made with one of those old school plastic label makers where the letters get embossed in the plastic ribbon. Guess someone really wanted to get out of it without any work. 

[Captnmack]

On 10/5/2017 at 10:58 PM, AlexLev said:

So, I recently had to make a precautionary landing due to a magneto failure in the air and the FSDO has their local office where I landed, so naturally they decided to investigate the aircraft.

I got a call today that they are unhappy with where the data plate is on my 68 M20G. It's located just in front of the door where the intake vent is. I assume this is how it came out of the factory. Seems silly for them to want me to either move this one or put another one and potentially drill holes to affix a new one when this is how it was originally certified, but they cited https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/45.11 section e2. Gave me a few months to comply and no big deal I guess, but I'm wondering if anyone has had this happen to them.

If so, where did you get a data plate? Can I buy one on aircraftspruce somewhere? Any ideas on how to affix it without drilling the airframe?

I have an 67'F and it is in the NACA Duct on the right side also....

[AlexLev]

Shhhhh! Soon you'll have to put one on the tail too!

[RobertGary1]

On 10/9/2017 at 4:05 AM, M20Doc said:

If/when you install the extra data plate I would make a log book entry covering the work.  You don't want the same inspector citing you for completing un documented maintenance.

If you decide that you won't be doing it you could ask to speak with his supervisor to get clarification on the interpretation of the regulation, support this with a letter from Mooney stating the data plate is in the correct location for your model and serial number.

Clarence

What is the difference between the original data plate and an ID plate? Is it just another plate the faa decided needed to be added later?

-Robert 

[Mark89114]

I would fight it, our founding fathers have some rather brilliant quotes about liberty and giving it up a little bit at a time.  Unfortunately I can't find them right now but this is exactly the type of nonsense they were referring to.  

[cliffy]

3 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

What is the difference between the original data plate and an ID plate? Is it just another plate the faa decided needed to be added later?

Folks why are we getting so much in a tizzy over this little item?

The simple answer is YES!

First, an original "data plate" is a legal document. Without the original "data plate" from the manufacture,  the airplane doesn't exist. Period. It is left where the factory originally installed it. 

An "ID plate" was added to the tail so that airplanes could be followed during the big drug wars 35 years ago PRECISELY because some "data plates" were installed BY THE FACTORY (back then)  in areas not visible from the outside of the airplane and law enforcement wanted to be able to check and track specific airplanes. Again, false N numbers on drug runners? :-)

The political aspect of an additional tag (good or bad) is really for another thread. 

All the ID plate is, is a 1/4 inch tall by 3" long aluminum strip attached with 2 rivets to the tail of the airplane. Use Wally World pop rivets. The FAA guys involved in the OPs post need to be "educated" as to what is legally required. I'll guarantee that it can be done quietly and in 10 minutes if approached properly. 

The OPs data plate has NOT been moved from its original spot as the Feds imply. The current law as postulated by the note from the Feds is CURRENT requirements for manufacturers and NOT retroactive to old airframes as far as the "data plate" goes. 

The "ID plate" was/is the requirement for older airframes with factory installed "data plates" in other areas, other than the tail.

History repeats itself to those who forget it.

 

 

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

Folks why are we getting so much in a tizzy over this little item?

 

I didn't detect a tizzy. I thought it was a pretty legitimate question.

-Robert

[cliffy]

Wasn't referring to your question which was relevant