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Flap setting


kaba

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High altitude/ density flap setting....

Any advise for Mooney flap setting when taking off from 8-10,000'

Density altitude ( no flap take off produces improved climb gradient)

Thanks ......

 

 

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Interesting question.  Personally I would use takeoff flap position and max performance with leaning for best power. Of course other considerations factored in such as max performance takeoff, lean for best power, density altitude, runway length, well below gross, etc.  No flap takeoff works well for me, but I do use a little more runway.

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I guess it depends.  Takeoff roll is significantly longer at higher density altitudes.  Using no flaps will make it even longer.

The couple I've done (Rock Springs, WY and Longmont, CO) I used the usual half flaps.

Keep in mind, the landing gear will be much more drag than 1/2 flaps.  Once you get the gear up you should be able to accelerate and get rid of the flaps.  Everything takes quite a bit longer though.

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1 hour ago, Oscar Avalle said:

I used take off flaps and leaned for best power. However, you have to be careful with CHTs. 

This is not meant to replace any discussion with somebody who knows...but here is a video I took of a take off from an airport at 8,000 feet.

 

Oscar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL8Iro5x3xA

You flew out of Shela, you dog!  I'm planning a Guatemala trip next year (or the next), I'll have to pick your brain.  Only bad thing is there's no place to land a Mooney at lake Attitlan.

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Just now, steingar said:

You flew out of Shela, you dog!  I'm planning a Guatemala trip next year (or the next), I'll have to pick your brain.  Only bad thing is there's no place to land a Mooney at lake Attitlan.

We lived in Guatemala for 4 years and I took my Mooney down there. it was a great experience. Actually, there is now a landing strip (grass) at the lake Attitlan. But I have to admit I would not take a Mooney into that strip. You would be able to take in there, but getting out is another story. Happy to talk, there is a great flying community in Guatemala.

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7 minutes ago, Oscar Avalle said:

We lived in Guatemala for 4 years and I took my Mooney down there. it was a great experience. Actually, there is now a landing strip (grass) at the lake Attitlan. But I have to admit I would not take a Mooney into that strip. You would be able to take in there, but getting out is another story. Happy to talk, there is a great flying community in Guatemala.

Good to hear.  I doubt I could get my Mooney in an out of a 3rd world grass strip without mishap.  My older brother has lived in Panajachel for 40 years.  Tubed it down to see him last May.  Plan on taking my own ship there in the next couple years.  Heck, I'd retire there tomorrow but Mrs. Steingar won't hear of it.  Pity, I love the place.

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I struggle to see how DA can influence take off flap setting decision but what exactly are you hoping to achieve?

Best rate or best angle? 

If anything, you want to stick to POH recommendations for best climb performance. What does your POH say? 

Edited by Tommy
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10 hours ago, kaba said:

High altitude/ density flap setting....

Any advise for Mooney flap setting when taking off from 8-10,000'

Density altitude ( no flap take off produces improved climb gradient)

Thanks ......

There's a fundamental difference between the concept of indicated airspeed and true airspeed. Flaps, gear extension, and most flying related items are in regards to indicated airspeed. On the other hand, true airspeed is important in regards to enroute speed to destination, fuel use per mile, takeoff and landing distances. Use flaps and takeoff at normal airspeed. Allow for significantly more runway because the true airspeed will be higher and engine performance in NA will be reduced.

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I've taken off from Delta UT KDTA a few times in the summer when it's hot and DA above 8,000'. I use take off flaps and lean a little for best power. Takes a lot of runway and very slow climb but works. Let it climb how it wants, it was easy to see how someone could panic thinking they should be climbing faster, pull back more, and cause a stall. 

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Kaba,

There are courses that cover your question and a few more that you haven't asked...

Look up Mountain flying to get some ideas...

There are other interesting segments of flight that are equally affected by high DA flights....

PP thoughts only, not a CFI.

Best regards,

-a-

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1 minute ago, Mooney in Oz said:

How good would it be if we had the privilege of Bob Kromer (former Mooney factory test pilot) monitoring our forums.

Im sure Bob would if he had the time. His current position at Blackhawk Aero has him tight for his time as it is. Bob is a board member of the Mooney Summit, Inc. and plans to be and speak at Mooney Summit VI. He was unable to attend this year because of getting a project done with the FAA at Blackhawk demanded his participation. Yya, its a long way for you to come, but Andrew has made the trip across the pond twice for the Summit. Heck I flew CarolAnn Garratts 201 to the Summit, it has seen OZ a couple of times now. There are ways :)

 

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You know Mike, I recently thought about attending a future Mooney Summit to the extent that only a couple of days ago I had a good surf through your website. I know this years has just ended, however are there any dates and location decided for 2018?

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Yep, Mooney Summit VI will be in Panama CIty Beach, Florida Sept 28th-30th. 2018 with possibly other activities on the 26th and 27th of Sept. Stay tuned! We would love to have you visit!
Here is a link to some of this years pics

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByEdyRXOYGbuM1ItbnlXdngwRlk

 

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MIO,

Start planning today...

Plan A: Mooney Summit VI

Plan B: Mooney Summit VII

One day,

  • all the stars align and you wake up in Panama City beach...
  • shaking hands with 100 people you almost know well, and a few people that you do know well...
  • discussing topics that are important to you
  • learning something new

It only took me five years to make it happen the first time. I hope to be back next year.

Make it happen! :)

Best regards,

-a-

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Thanks Mike and carusoam for the encouragement - and also your enjoyable posts I love reading.  I viewed all the pics and my favourites as always were all the different Mooneys in the parking area.   I have to say that you are very organised with the location and dates already set in motion .  If work allows me leave for those dates with no other issues, I'll likely be there.  Just one more question; do you guys sell any merchandise? I would like to show some further support by purchasing some Mooney clothing or other stuff.  I could not find anything relating to merchandise in any of the monthly Mooney Flyers I receive.

My apology to kaba for the thread drift.

 

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3 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

Thanks Mike and carusoam for the encouragement - and also your enjoyable posts I love reading.  I viewed all the pics and my favourites as always were all the different Mooneys in the parking area.   I have to say that you are very organised with the location and dates already set in motion .  If work allows me leave for those dates with no other issues, I'll likely be there.  Just one more question; do you guys sell any merchandise? I would like to show some further support by purchasing some Mooney clothing or other stuff.  I could not find anything relating to merchandise in any of the monthly Mooney Flyers I receive.

My apology to kaba for the thread drift.

 

Moz, the Mooney Summit is  not related to the Mooney flyer or Mooney Space, we are a separate 501(c)3 charity organization from other Mooney groups. That said, we support all mooney groups, MAPA, MooneyFlyer, MAPA safety foundation, Florida Mooney Lunch group, Mooney Caravan, mooney ambasadors etc in their efforts to promote Mooney, profit or not. Merchandising was discussed this year at the Mooney Summit board meeting and it was decided to offer Mooney Summit shirts as we had a lot of "gee where can I get one" comments for the one's the board members were wearing.

This will be part of the registration process to order yourself a Mooney Summit Shirt, as we don't particularly want to be warerhousing clothing etc and will possibly have a few for sale at no profit at the event. This is all in Lee Drumheller's corner right now. 

Meanwhile, you can support the Mooney Summit and our charity, the Bill Gilliland foundation by going to http://smile.amazon.com and selecting The Mooney Summit, Inc. as your charity. Then when you order anything off amazon, do it from the smile.amazon.com page vs. amazon.com and it will trigger a .05% donation to the Mooney Summit.

Sorry for the extreme thread drift, OP. Personally, I would use TO flaps.

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Sorry Mike, for some reason I thought this website forum and The Mooney Flyer were the same.  Re Amazon - Done!

kaba - I would also use T/O flaps as most here attest to from previous experience, including my own but nowhere near as high an elevation as some have indicated.  I think the highest licensed airport elevation in Australia is 4,260 feet, which is nothing compared to what you have in the USA.

 

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@kaba...I routinely fly DAs of 10K or higher. Take off flaps, and slight nose-high trim, full rich (for my turbo--but lean for BP if NA), rotate at 70mph, nose over to get to 80, positive rate/gear up, get to 500' and flaps up, boost pump off...that's how I do it every time. So far, so good. Works at max gross and with just me and full fuel. 

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On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 11:18 AM, Oscar Avalle said:

I used take off flaps and leaned for best power. However, you have to be careful with CHTs. 

This is not meant to replace any discussion with somebody who knows...but here is a video I took of a take off from an airport at 8,000 feet.

 

Oscar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL8Iro5x3xA

That is a very nice video, thanks for sharing it.

José

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I agree with what others have said. I've flown summers through the high southwest in the summer for decades. One additional piece of advice I'll give is to not try to pull the plane off the runway before its ready. Its going to be sluggish coming off the runway and have patience (and lots of runway). Also, be prepared that your climb out pitch may initially be almost flat. Climb out on airspeed, not pitch of course. Once you get above about 50' your climb will improve, I think the heat from the asphalt runway makes performance worse the first 50'. At least that has been on consistent observation.

 

-Robert

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I flew to Leadville CO quite a few times in my NA M20F. I have departed with 12000 ft DAs. It is strange to do a short field takeoff on a 6500 ft runway, but that is what you do.

you just roll and roll and roll...

As said above, just fly airspeed and you will be OK. 

Just be patient.

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