Yetti

Parallel parking the Mooney (don't try this at home)

Recommended Posts

That's good for you, but I can see there is either: 1.  minimal or no fuel,  2. its full, or 3. its somewhere in between.  But not enough for planning to within 45 minutes of tanks dry, as Chris did.  However I have a 9$ airhawk fuel dip stick that is good for about a gallon accuracy per side and we have always used that.  Our plane also has bladders and its a back hole inside the wing. So there's that.  But for the wet tank airplanes, without a tab like a piper has, its just a guess.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*Members that donate $10 or more do not see advertisements*

15 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

That's good for you, but I can see there is either: 1.  minimal or no fuel,  2. its full, or 3. its somewhere in between.  But not enough for planning to within 45 minutes of tanks dry, as Chris did.  However I have a 9$ airhawk fuel dip stick that is good for about a gallon accuracy per side and we have always used that.  Our plane also has bladders and its a back hole inside the wing. So there's that.  But for the wet tank airplanes, without a tab like a piper has, its just a guess.

The early planes like the one in this accident do have a 25gal tab and they make an excellent reference even if not filling to to 25gals.  I understand what rich is saying.  I almost always have more fuel than I think.  I do consolidate fuel on long XCs. I start including the pressure gauge in my regular scan when I think we're near running the tank dry.  Almost without fail, I am 25 mins early.   I have a tank run dry unexpectedly only once and it was the return of my first real XC trip (350nm) in the plane (less than 10hrs in type).  I either misjudged taxi and climb fuel burn or I misjudged what was in that tank on start up. Either way my passenger was not pleased when it burped and started windmilling at 7500ft over Long Island sound.  First and last time for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The early planes like the one in this accident do have a 25gal tab

Negative. Not that 1966 M20E (total capacity was 26/side...). My '69 M20F has 25 gallon tabs.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, chrixxer said:

Negative. Not that 1966 M20E (total capacity was 26/side...). My '69 M20F has 25 gallon tabs.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Brain fart on my part... No tabs of an type in the 52 gal tanks?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brain fart on my part... No tabs of an type in the 52 gal tanks?
Not in my '66 Es.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Brain fart on my part... No tabs of an type in the 52 gal tanks?

Nope . . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Early Js with wet wings have tabs.  Only three levels I know are accurate without a dip are full, tab, and 8 gal when the fuel is dry to the next inboard rib, then wet down below. All else requires dipping. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Learning is key here!! In the early 90s I almost ran a new to me Seneca out of fuel due to mismanagement of the mixture(no fancy JPI just an egt on each engine). Thought the fuel gauges looked low(they were) but trusted what I took off with (full), fuel burn per hour, and a known added amount at a fuel stop. It was night, IFR, in eastern Pennsylvania , on descent I got a visual on the airport, cancelled and landed. Next morning  FBO added 121 gallons to a 128 total system, when I THOUGHT I should have had at least 28 usable on board, I have never made that mistake again 

  • Like 2
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so anal about this that I sticked my tanks before flying Friday, first flight after a long lay off.  I estimated I had 16 gallons, easily enough to get me to my destination (a cheap gas stop) and back.  But was I right?  My fuel stick isn't the most calibrated thing in the world, how close was I?  I had my uber expensive home drome pump some gas in just to be certain.  Flying to the cheap gas stop to finish the job, couldn't find it at first. Long lay off, remember?  And while looking for it I was very glad I'd had them add some gas to the mix.

I would never rely on just looking into the tanks for an estimate, especially at night.  Too easy to see what's not there.  And I would never launch with minimum fuel at night.  Too easy for things to go wrong.

Then again, I didn't go flying yesterday even though I had good wx and time.  Just too tired, busted the IMSAFE checklist.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two things seem to keep recurring...  hard to put a finger on it.  But, i’m Going to discuss what I had a problem with early on...

 

1) knowing how much fuel is in the tank...  we are pretty good at that, now...

2) knowing how much fuel we are burning from T/O to leveling off... not sure how good we are at that, yet... (I knew i didn’t have a hold on this for nearly a year of M20C flying, no FF, no engine monitor...)

 

3) If you haven’t a FF/totalizer, and haven’t measured your fuel burned during the WOT, ROP climb... Have you considered that the long climb to altitude is burning 2X your usual cruise FF, while going about half the speed over the ground?

4) Getting the fuel burn out of the manual requires proving you are leaning the way the manual requires... which is not the way most people actually operate anymore....

 

5) If you haven’t done so...   Get to know your fuel burn for T/O and climb... use one tank for measuring, the other tank for flying all the other legs....

  • The measuring tank starts full, only gets used for the leg that is being measured, and gets refilled after landing... note the important things like time at start, time at end, gallons used, MP, mixture notes...
  • The other tank gets used for all other parts of the flight...

It took me a long time to comfortably fly anywhere beyond half tanks...  mostly because the mixture knob can unknowingly burn a lot more fuel than expected... at WOT, all the way through to leveling off...

The only fuel instruments I had were the pretty lazy fuel level gauges, calibrated at zero...

The fuel procedure was to land at the first airport if a tank ran out unexpectedly....  it was never run out, intentionally...

Sound familiar?  Not saying my experience is related to @chrixxer‘s.   His flight experience here, IS what I was fearing regarding my own flights... getting proper burn rates and working gauges helped... getting FF/totalizer made things much more comfortable regarding knowing how much you start with and how much you currently have.... Having a GPS closes the loop with how far you have to go and how much you need to have on board...

Best regards,

-a-

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(First time posting on mooneyspace, but I’ve enjoyed reading, and am enjoying this discussion.)

I won’t try to judge @chrixxer one way or another, he and his passenger walked away from it, and that says a lot. In the end only @chrixxer will be able to decide what his lessons are from the event. There are always lessons, and they’ll come from reflection. Of course, the discussion provides input which I’m sure he will accept or reject based on his own judgement. Having lived through a few “there but for the grace of god moments” myself, I’ll respect the space he’ll need to come to his own conclusions.

I will say that I don’t think @chrixxer will ever be able to watch the first scene of the move “Always” the same way again. (And for those who have watched it, be sure to catch the dialog later in the movie, where he says “fill it to the tabs. I’m going to need every drop.”. I always thought that was a little easter egg just to give us pilots a chuckle.)

Fly safe!

-chuck

Edited by NeedSpeed
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great first post, Chuck!

Have no fear, @chrixxer has the will to get better and stronger, while sharing his experience the whole way!

You will see this sharing of experience often around MS...

The sooner you can share an experience like this, the sooner you have helped out the next guy with a similar background...

For the most part, we all fly Mooneys... that have covered some significant distances... since they were new...

Often we are still students of aviation with thousands of hours under our belts...

Learning to avoid engine outs is important... An MSer wrote a book about it, that is worth reading...

Learning how to handle engine-outs is next important... A couple of MSers have lost oil, or power, or large chunks of engine before gliding safely back to an airport... really? an airport...? when a good open field will work wonders... lost/missing fuel, lost oil, lost MP, Iced over air filter and dodgy alt air, the list goes on...

Learning how to post the positive results on MS after the incident earns extra credit...

It takes extra human talent to answer hundreds of questions about what went wrong, and why didn’t you do this, and .... over and over ... until the word has reached every possible person that can possibly learn from the experience...

Some people get really good at this and take it to the next level... speaking in front of a room full of Mooney pilots...

Go to Mooney Summit... real Mooney pilots, real Mooney experience, all sitting at the same tables... openly speaking about all things Mooney... 

Most of those discussions are more fun and enjoyable!

I am sure Chrixxer has some important feat that a higher power wants him to complete... and He isn’t done yet.  :)

Have you seen Dan? Do you have a good CO monitor? Dan @DanM20C has one of those interesting engine out experiences and has been graciously discussing it for a while...

Glad you can join us.  :)

Best regards,

-a-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, Dan was more of a "pilot out." His engine would have continued to run had he remained conscious. Actually, his planned flight was shorter than his actual, one-tank-duration flight. He has since become quite the evangelist for CO monitors, and convinced me and several hundred others to take advantage of manufacturer's discounts that he sought out for CO detectors.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, NeedSpeed said:

(First time posting on mooneyspace, but I’ve enjoyed reading, and am enjoying this discussion.)

I won’t try to judge @chrixxer one way or another, he and his passenger walked away from it, and that says a lot. In the end only @chrixxer will be able to decide what his lessons are from the event. There are always lessons, and they’ll come from reflection. Of course, the discussion provides input which I’m sure he will accept or reject based on his own judgement. Having lived through a few “there but for the grace of god moments” myself, I’ll respect the space he’ll need to come to his own conclusions.

I will say that I don’t think @chrixxer will ever be able to watch the first scene of the move “Always” the same way again. (And for those who have watched it, be sure to catch the dialog later in the movie, where he says “fill it to the tabs. I’m going to need every drop.”. I always thought that was a little easter egg just to give us pilots a chuckle.)

Fly safe!

-chuck

I agree ,nice respectful first post...it's human nature to get defensive when we basically screw up...unfortunately the FAA (right or wrong)takes the position that running out of fuel is always a PIC error.Ive never done it but thank my original cfi for instilling some basic habits...never running on the last 10 gals is one of them.Knowing how much fuel I started with before takeoff is the second...if your fuel gauges can't be trusted use a calibrated stick...every time  no exceptions.Years ago I flew into Billings and noticed an A-26 on the ramp with some unusual nose art...an antique twin reel movie camera with the quotation "always" on the nose.I think the year was 1989..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.