AntiCollison lighting ( can i dump the beacon )

[McMooney]

The power supply for my beacon up and quit and instead of replacing it i'm wondering if it would be legal to just delete.

 

my plane along with nav lights has strobes at all 3 points.  from what I've read, isn't that sufficient?

 

[carusoam]

Check the Whelen site.

They have nice graphics and logic that define what is needed on the plane based on the year it was built.

My ’94 O has an anti collision light...and strobes...

Best regards,

-a-

[rbridges]

48 minutes ago, McMooney said:

The power supply for my beacon up and quit and instead of replacing it i'm wondering if it would be legal to just delete.

 

my plane along with nav lights has strobes at all 3 points.  from what I've read, isn't that sufficient?

 

what carusoam said.  My plane has no beacon.  I have 3 strobes and nav lights.  My wing tips also have a rear facing bulb, but I don't know if that's necessary or not.

[KSMooniac]

My 77 just had two strobes on the wings. I recently upgraded to LED and added a third at the tail.

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[jetdriven]

Those are legal for anti collision but it really is annoying to other pilots with airplanes taxiing by with strobes on, especially at night.  hazardous in some instances, actually. You can always spot a cirrus, they're mostly the ones taxiing around with strobes on.  

Edited September 22, 2017 by jetdriven

[MIm20c]

54 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Those are legal for anti collision but it really is annoying to other pilots with airplanes taxiing by with strobes on, especially at night.  hazardous in some instances, actually. You can always spot a cirrus, they're mostly the ones taxiing around with strobes on.  

I’m one of those pilots. No rotating beacon so legally I need to have the strobes on while moving.  Pretty sure I can still turn them off if it adversely impacts visibility.

[INA201]

78J no beacon. Navs and strobes only and no step. Came standard for mine.

[Guitarmaster]

Visual flight rules (night). ForVFR flight at night, the followinginstruments and equipment are required:

(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph ( of this section.

(2) Approved position lights.

(3) An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system on all U.S.-registered civil aircraft. Anticollision light systems initially installed after August 11, 1971, on aircraft for which a type certificate was issued or applied for before August 11, 1971, must at least meet the anticollision light standards of part 23, 25, 27, or 29 of this chapter, as applicable, that were in effect on August 10, 1971, except that the color may be either aviation red or aviation white. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operations with theaircraft may be continued to a stop where repairs o



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[EricJ]

11 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

My 77 just had two strobes on the wings. I recently upgraded to LED and added a third at the tail.

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Mine is the same with the original two wing strobes and no beacon.   I think the strobes had to be of the type that had 180-degree view or a tail strobe was needed.

What LEDs did you go with?

[StevenL757]

12 hours ago, McMooney said:

The power supply for my beacon up and quit and instead of replacing it i'm wondering if it would be legal to just delete.

my plane along with nav lights has strobes at all 3 points.  from what I've read, isn't that sufficient?

 

What power supply do you have?  If it is the Whelen HDACF, I have a good, working one I can let you have.  At least until you can reach a decision on going all LED.

Steve

[KSMooniac]

Mine is the same with the original two wing strobes and no beacon.   I think the strobes had to be of the type that had 180-degree view or a tail strobe was needed.

What LEDs did you go with?

I went with Whelen Orion 650 series and like them. My strobes were previously not synced, and I synced all 3 locations now and love it.

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[ArtVandelay]

I went with Whelen Orion 650 series and like them. My strobes were previously not synced, and I synced all 3 locations now and love it.

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Same LEDS, I did not sync them, I personally like the apparent randomness (like a Christmas tree).

[Guitarmaster]

Mine has a strobe on the belly and one in each wingtip. When I taxi around night, the strobes are off and only the nav lights are burning.

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[johncuyle]

10 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Same LEDS, I did not sync them, I personally like the apparent randomness (like a Christmas tree).

I just had them installed.  There was a pre-existing sync wire for the wings but not one for the tail.  I figure that not having the wings synced would bother me but I can't see the tail from inside the plane so it won't matter.  Have not flown with them yet.

I haven't got a beacon but honestly would kind of like to add a streamlined, teardrop, LED one if possible.  Last time I landed at night I'm sure my strobes jacked the night vision of a couple guys preparing to depart in a jet, and I felt really bad about it.

[DXB]

I'm getting Whelen nav-strobes at wing tips and tail installed at annual and will get the belly flasher removed. 

https://www.whelen.com/pb/Aviation/System Requirements/Anit-Collision Systems.pdf

My understanding is that it is still fine to turn off all the strobes at night if it might bother other pilots on the ground, so I will try not to be a d*ck and leave them on in all circumstances.  Please correct me if I  do not understand the regs.

[Andy95W]

28 minutes ago, DXB said:

I'm getting Whelen nav-strobes at wing tips and tail installed at annual and will get the belly flasher removed. 

https://www.whelen.com/pb/Aviation/System Requirements/Anit-Collision Systems.pdf

My understanding is that it is still fine to turn off all the strobes at night if it might bother other pilots on the ground, so I will try not to be a d*ck and leave them on in all circumstances.  Please correct me if I  do not understand the regs.

Just one thought- the belly flasher is legal, so if any of your strobes went out, you could still fly at night.  And you wouldn't have to worry about people comparing you to a Cirrus pilot with his strobes on (i.e.,  d*ck!) 

[midlifeflyer]

In terms of the question about just removing one of the two types, there’s the 2011 FAA Chief Counsel Murphy opinion which has been read a number of different ways.  My read is, if the beacon and strobes come as a package, it’s treated as a single “system,” and cant be separated. Others have read it differently.

[Guitarmaster]

I'm getting Whelen nav-strobes at wing tips and tail installed at annual and will get the belly flasher removed. 
https://www.whelen.com/pb/Aviation/System Requirements/Anit-Collision Systems.pdf
My understanding is that it is still fine to turn off all the strobes at night if it might bother other pilots on the ground, so I will try not to be a d*ck and leave them on in all circumstances.  Please correct me if I  do not understand the regs.

PLEASE turn the strobes of at night around others regardless of the way your aircraft is configured!!
It's common courtesy and if you ever get questioned about it, just say that you're increasing safety because you're not blinding other Pilots.

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[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said:

In terms of the question about just removing one of the two types, there’s the 2011 FAA Chief Counsel Murphy opinion which has been read a number of different ways.  My read is, if the beacon and strobes come as a package, it’s treated as a single “system,” and cant be separated. Others have read it differently.

Odd that the Murphy opinion is counter to the method used by every airline (and whose operations manuals are approved by the FAA).  Airlines use the beacons for anti-collision light use while taxiing on the ground, and don't turn on the wingtip and tail strobes until entering the runway.

[midlifeflyer]

4 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Odd that the Murphy opinion is counter to the method used by every airline (and whose operations manuals are approved by the FAA).  Airlines use the beacons for anti-collision light use while taxiing on the ground, and don't turn on the wingtip and tail strobes until entering the runway.

? I don't understand. It's not counter. It specifically recognizes the practice as proper. It's even written into the rule itself.

Here's what the opinion says:

In the preamble to the final rule creating the regulation that ultimately became § 91.209(b), the FAA recognized several commenters who raised concerns that "the use of a strobe light as an anticollision light would create an unsafe condition during certain aircraft operations, such as taxiing, takeoff, and landing." 43 Fed. Reg. 22636, 22637 (May 25, 1978). The FAA agreed that "the use of a high intensity anticollision light," such as a strobe light, could create unsafe conditions by "induc[ing] vertigo and caus[ing] spatial distortion." Id. As a result, the FAA amended the pertinent regulatory language to give the PIC the discretion to control how many lights are turned on in the anticollision system "in the interests of safety." 

And here's what FAR 91.209(b) says:

 No person may... Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off. 

 

 

[midlifeflyer]

4 hours ago, Guitarmaster said:

PLEASE turn the strobes of at night around others regardless of the way your aircraft is configured!!
It's common courtesy and if you ever get questioned about it, just say that you're increasing safety because you're not blinding other Pilots.

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You will not get questioned about it. The rule says it's what you are supposed to do. 

[Andy95W]

Mark- sorry if I misunderstood what you meant.  I never doubted that we were on the same page, just what the FAA person was getting at-

5 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

 if the beacon and strobes come as a package, it’s treated as a single “system,” and cant be separated.

 

[midlifeflyer]

19 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Mark- sorry if I misunderstood what you meant.  I never doubted that we were on the same page, just what the FAA person was getting at-

 

I know. The Chief Counsel was saying the practice is an exception which illustrates the general rule. If you could forego one part of the system all the time, you would not need a rule saying you could in the interests of safety.

IOW, a "right turn on red" rule would not exist if you didn't need to stop at red traffic lights to begin with.

[Bart Chilcott]

I fly a 65 M20E.  I have the stock belly rotating beacon and stock wing tip and tail NAV lights.  I'm thinking of replacing the position lights (wing tip and tail) with new LED bulbs from "Sextant Lighting".  They produce a NAV/STROBE replacement LED bulb designed for vintage aircraft.  The kit comes with the three bulbs and three clear glass domes to replace the colored stock domes as the LED's themselves are colored.  When the bulbs are first turned on, they are constant on NAV lights.  But when you switch them off for 3 seconds and then back on, they strobe.  I'm wondering a similar question.  If I install these, can I remove the mason jar type beacon from the belly.  Here is a link to these bulbs being installed on a vintage Stinson.

V

[jetdriven]

I'm not even sure if those are legal for nav lights. But they are certainly not legal for anti-collision. There's no civilian aircraft has flashing nav lights  in lieu of an approved anticollision light system. For one thing they  have to be all white...