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Thinking of straying from the fold


salty

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1 minute ago, Candy man said:

Aren't many of  the money's the same age as the commanche series? Why aren't they considered old?

The Comanche' line was no longer produced after 1972 when the flood destroyed all the tooling, the M20 is still being built to this day, and my M20C and a brand new Acclaim have a lot of parts in common. 

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2 hours ago, jetdriven said:

4 seats 155 knots 160-200K.  That money will buy a really nice Mooney and all the money to maintain it for a long time. Also look at the RV10 pictures of crashed ones.  The cabin folds up. In this comparison I'll take certified any day. 

I looked at an RV-10 that one of the locals built and was admiring it.   He was describing that an early failure mode for RV-10s was a door coming off and smashing into the horizontal stab.   I kind of lost interest after that. ;)

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20 minutes ago, salty said:

PP?

Private pilot...

I don't have the skills of some of the other guys around here... like A&P or pro pilot...

If Terry says it's legal to fly without the co-pilot seat, that would be more reliable than a PP saying he flys without the seat...

I have an extra engineering degree, so I'm pretty good with WnB...

:)

-a-

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Apples and oranges.  You won't approach buying an RV10 for under 100 AMUs, and I think it costs a significant fraction of that (not to mention a lot of time) to build one.  That buys a crapload of Mooney.  Heck, that buys a crapload of just about anything.

Be careful what you read on the internet.  An IA told me the only airplane in which is was legal to remove the back seats was my Cherokee, since they're velcroed in place.  Yeah, if nothing every happens who's going to know?  But you could apply that to just about anything.  Why bother with a pilot license, or a medical certification.  Who's going to know?

If you really think its legal to remove part of an airplane that's bolted in, I'd like to know who told you.  Not saying you're wrong, just wondering where it came from.  Could be an IA was blowing smoke up my six.

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Steiny,

My M20C's copilot seat came out by sliding it off the rails... front legs roll forwards off the rails, back legs roll off the back of the rails... if I remember correctly...

The R probably has something like a brass hairpin (there is a name for that simple fastener?) blocking the action.

 

The Long Body, back seat bottoms are velcroed in place,  the backs, fold forwards after the bottoms have been removed....

Two seat pick-up truck, in that configuration....

60 years of Mooney evolution.

Best regards,

-a-

 

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3 hours ago, salty said:

Wife: She doesn't complain, although I think she'd be more eager to go if it were more comfortable. Getting on the wing isn't the big problem, it's the low seating that's more of the issue. With a bad back, sitting with your legs in your armpits, or even straight out in front of you doesn't work well. She keeps telling me she doesn't want a high wing, but I need to get her in a 182.

I do not know if the adjustable seats I have in my J would be available for your C, but they do make a difference for me. Another option might be to have someone like Aero Comfort redo the passenger seat for her to make it more ergonomically comfortable. While it may not be a perfect solution, it may be much more cost effective than swapping planes.

There was a thread on those of us with bad backs a while back (no pun intended). It was amazing to me to see what some of us have in the area of back problems and how we mitigate them.

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1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Steiny,

My M20C's copilot seat came out by sliding it off the rails... front legs roll forwards off the rails, back legs roll off the back of the rails... if I remember correctly...

The Cherokee front seats came out the same exact way, and they were required equipment.  Had to fly with them unless you got field approval, again according to the same IA with whom I spoke.  Stuff just attached by velcro gets a pass.

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A few things to consider about the old and archaic Comanche:

It was born with fuel bladders which so many here desire.  

It doesn't have a steel tube structure, but it also has never been scrapped because the steel structure rotted away.

It has electric gear which can be disengaged from the retraction system allowing manual extension should the electrics fail, or the back clutch spring break.

It doesn't have wing spar corrosion issues like similar vintage Mooney's.  They are zinc chromate primed inside and out.

The wings are heald on with the bolts in shear not tension requiring expensive replacement.

Its parallel valve Lycoming is reliable and cheaper to overhaul than the angle valve Lycoming in the most popular Mooney's.  

An oil change in a Comanche takes 2 more quarts of oil but less time because there is more room in the cowls.  

It has greater payload than any Mooney flying.

It is available in 4 and 6 place cabin.

You sit on a seat which doesn't feel like your bum is dragging on the ground.

The cabin door is wider.

The baggage door is below waist height for easy loading.

It is available in turbocharged models.

It is available as a twin.

It can fly off grass runways with no concern because it has a bigger nose wheel than a Mooney or Beech.

It has just a big an after market support system as the Mooney.

Many of the airframe AD's have terminating actions.

The cabin is wider than a Mooney or Beech.

It doesn't have $10,000 main gear trunnions like a Cessna 172/182 RG series..

It doesn't use $100 X 11 pieces shock discs for landing gear, it uses $10 worth of O rings and 2 quarts of hydraulic oil.

It is still supported by financially sound Piper Aircraft.

Clarence

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2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Some words are hard to find when they don't get used very often...  it's a cognitive skill called word retrieval.

Best regards,

-a-

And it seems to get worse as I get... ummm... not as young... uhhh... oh yeah, older!

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1 hour ago, 1964-M20E said:

I think you just convinced me to buy a Comanche:D

 

 

Just don't look up the cost to overhaul that big block IO-720.  And don't watch that NASA video of the wild tail gyrations. 

I read somewhere that Piper tried to buy the M20 but were told "not for sale" so they asked "how much for the wing".  It's bizarre just how similar they are.  

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1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

Just don't look up the cost to overhaul that big block IO-720.  And don't watch that NASA video of the wild tail gyrations. 

I read somewhere that Piper tried to buy the M20 but were told "not for sale" so they asked "how much for the wing".  It's bizarre just how similar they are.  

Only a few of us are lucky enough to have the 720, I sure love mine.  Similar in overhaul costs to the TSIO550 in an Acclaim.

While the NASA video is scary to watch, the plane did not fail, unlike many other airframes.

Clarence

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3 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

I think you just convinced me to buy a Comanche:D

 

My short list consisted of a Comanche or Mooney. I found a Mooney that I liked before I found a Comanche that I liked.

25 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

Indicated or true airspeed ? I don't recall any vintage Mooneys that indicate 140 kts on 8.8 GPH.

I think he must mean true airspeed. I see 139 knots true airspeed at somewhere right around 9.0 GPH.

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7 hours ago, steingar said:

The Cherokee front seats came out the same exact way, and they were required equipment.  Had to fly with them unless you got field approval, again according to the same IA with whom I spoke.  Stuff just attached by velcro gets a pass.

Remind me to never use that IA. :huh:

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