Mcstealth Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 Cirrus continues to dominate the piston market, selling nearly a third of all piston airplanes in the first half of 2017, but the growth came from Cessna. In the first half of 2016, Cessna sold only 65 airplanes. That number is up to 90 this year, mostly from the 51 Cessna 172s the Kansas-based company delivered to their owners. Despite certification of the new Mooney M20U Ovation Ultra and M20V Acclaim Ultra earlier this year, the legendary Texas company was unable to ship a single airplane in Q2—down from 2 airplanes in Q1. Saw this snipitt and thought I would share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 I don't think that will surprise too many. If I was in the market for a 850k airplane the Mooney wouldn't even make the list. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccdeuce Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 For 850k I'm buying an evolution piston. http://www.evolutionaircraft.com/aircraft/evolution-piston/ To me the best (most cost effective) Mooneys are the J and K models (esp the 252 or the rocket/missile conversions) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, mccdeuce said: esp the 252 or the rocket/missile conversions) I have a rocket for sale Lancair esp or a turbine iv would be my best value go to if I could afford either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcstealth Posted August 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 I did some snooping, and it seems that these numbers will jump this quarter. I hope that I wasn't just fed a line of poop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccdeuce Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 I looked hard at your Rocket. It's just about twice the value of my J and then I would have zero money to build my Glasair. You are correct the ESP is a great aircraft but alas also out of my price range. (There's a good ESP for sale here in NC) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 minute ago, mccdeuce said: I looked hard at your Rocket. It's just about twice the value of my J and then I would have zero money to build my Glasair. You are correct the ESP is a great aircraft but alas also out of my price range. (There's a good ESP for sale here in NC) For the 300ish k they go for, I think they're quite a value. We can't swing it either. We're probably going sr22tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTaylor Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 28 minutes ago, peevee said: For the 300ish k they go for, I think they're quite a value. We can't swing it either. We're probably going sr22tn The new MAKO looks nice as well. Will offer the ballistic chute as an option. http://lancair.com/mako/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneyspeed Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 I don't think that will surprise too many. If I was in the market for a 850k airplane the Mooney wouldn't even make the list. At that price point you can being travelling in pressurized comfort with a cabin class arrangement and $$$ to spare if you went into a Malibu series. Heck you could even get a real hot Lancair IV-P. So I'm not surprised at the lack of orders. There are plenty of decent fast moving twins on the market and with the money you saved you could pay to train, insure, maintain. Plus many of those types have leasing potential when you are not using it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 I'm not sure it was from lack of orders. I know someone who purchased a new 16 model and the delivery process drug out the better part of a year. Mooney missed one promises date after another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 20 hours ago, TTaylor said: The new MAKO looks nice as well. Will offer the ballistic chute as an option. http://lancair.com/mako/ Not bad if you can get it done at the 250 min. Especially with the owner assist build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmaster Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 I don't think that will surprise too many. If I was in the market for a 850k airplane the Mooney wouldn't even make the list. Agreed. This kind of cash for an unpressurized single is insane. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpcc Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 There was a thread a while back that mentioned sales in double digits - Anyone know if these orders disappeared or the factory had some delivery issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooperd0g Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 On 8/18/2017 at 2:44 PM, mccdeuce said: I looked hard at your Rocket. It's just about twice the value of my J and then I would have zero money to build my Glasair. You are correct the ESP is a great aircraft but alas also out of my price range. (There's a good ESP for sale here in NC) Which Glasair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooperd0g Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) On 8/18/2017 at 2:46 PM, peevee said: For the 300ish k they go for, I think they're quite a value. We can't swing it either. We're probably going sr22tn Have you considered the A36 or G36 Bonanza? I know it doesn't have the parachute, but the big rear doors would make loading easier for Angel Flight. Edited August 19, 2017 by Cooperd0g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 14 minutes ago, Cooperd0g said: Have you considered the A36 or G36 Bonanza? I know it doesn't have the parachute, bug the big rear doors would make loading easier for Angel Flight. Not really. Too much money and need a turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 6 hours ago, Guitarmaster said: Agreed. This kind of cash for an unpressurized single is insane. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk And the price of a new, non-pressurized, fixed gear, turbo Cirrus is what? Yeah, the plane that "dominated the shipments of piston aircraft" is higher priced than the Acclaim Ultra... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmaster Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 And the price of a new, non-pressurized, fixed gear, turbo Cirrus is what? Yeah, the plane that "dominated the shipments of piston aircraft" is higher priced than the Acclaim Ultra... It's an insane price for any unpressurized single.Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMcClure Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 The crazy thing to me is the cost of a new plane compared to an older one. The Ultra is 3-4x a nice used ovation or 6-8x a nice J. And what capability does the new one have that the older one doesn't? An extra door. I would rather have a 10 year old ovation that has been well cared for and upgraded than a new one. The only way a new one works is through bonus depreciation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) For $850K I can get a nice big house with a hangar, private runway and marina. And save half hour trips to the airport. José Airpark_FL59.mp4 Edited August 20, 2017 by Piloto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccdeuce Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 5 hours ago, Cooperd0g said: Which Glasair? Super 2 Taildagger. It's going to be the sports car while the Mooney is my Sedan. 1 hour ago, PMcClure said: The crazy thing to me is the cost of a new plane compared to an older one. The Ultra is 3-4x a nice used ovation or 6-8x a nice J. And what capability does the new one have that the older one doesn't? An extra door. I would rather have a 10 year old ovation that has been well cared for and upgraded than a new one. The only way a new one works is through bonus depreciation. That's where the best option would be an Ovation with experimental avionics and some sort of engine that wasn't designed in the 40s. (One of the issues with exp is not a ton of good 4 seat options) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 9 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: And the price of a new, non-pressurized, fixed gear, turbo Cirrus is what? Yeah, the plane that "dominated the shipments of piston aircraft" is higher priced than the Acclaim Ultra... Lower price doesn't seem to be boosting sales at Mooney. Innovation seems to be helping Cirrus. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 Marketing and the chute has made Cirrus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 I'd argue that innovation, product support, upgrade paths, WAAS, better selection of Garmin packages, dual AHRS etc have just as much impact as the CAPS does. Just look at the thread here on G1000 and system 55X. Cirrus is out competing everyone, their sales numbers prove it. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainAB Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 Competition is good for the market. Cirrus is the iPhone/tesla user that trades in a lot for the newest one. I'm told that nobody buys a base cirrus sr22 g6 even though the g6 has some serious upgrades over a loaded G5. a retractable 4/5 seat 200 knot airplane has got some serious marketability. I think it comes down to three things that are repeatedly mentioned on this board. 1. Increase the useful load to 3600-3800 2. Apply the acclaim aerodynamic cleanups to the ovation (it's time for the ovation to be the new 205) 3. Add a safety feature like BRS, auto assist landing in engine outs. Or even just a program on the avionics that calculates your best three options (kind of like the wazes app when you are driving somewhere. marketing wise I'd get actual user testimony and flights. 'Hey I fly to Chicago, New York and Boston routinely in my ovation' that 3:45 minute trip in my ovation used to be 6 in my sr22 with the stop I had to make' Cheaper then first class and faster p.s. Quit screwing around and get the acclaim to 350 hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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