Greg_D Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 10:46 AM, PTK said: It accomplishes several key things: • enables removal of vacuum system • all inclusive with no need for extra boxes • keep your existing autopilot. Doesn't force you to remove a perfectly capable autopilot only to turn around and sell you another one! • does not lock you down in the Garmin ecosystem While it won’t require any new “boxes”, it will require a digital to analog converter harness that will be sold separately if you are connecting it to a KFC150 or KFC200. The BK folks said that was going to run between $600-$1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 38 minutes ago, Greg_D said: While it won’t require any new “boxes”, it will require a digital to analog converter harness that will be sold separately if you are connecting it to a KFC150 or KFC200. The BK folks said that was going to run between $600-$1000. http://www.bendixking.com/V4/KI-300 King's website says: "Eliminates labor intensive panel reconfiguration, costly PFD installation and need for external autopilot adapters." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 8 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: http://www.bendixking.com/V4/KI-300 King's website says: "Eliminates labor intensive panel reconfiguration, costly PFD installation and need for external autopilot adapters." since it doesn't exist yet, we really don't know what it will require if it ever does exist. Who knows, BK may switch suppliers again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, mike_elliott said: since it doesn't exist yet, we really don't know what it will require if it ever does exist. Who knows, BK may switch suppliers again... I've been as skeptical as anybody on this but I think Sandia can pull it off. It looks like they have shifted their production the next couple months from the Sandia 340 to the KI-300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark89114 Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 What is the certification issue with G5 and FIKI airplanes? I have seen that reference several places but no understanding of what's what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 5 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: I've been as skeptical as anybody on this but I think Sandia can pull it off. It looks like they have shifted their production the next couple months from the Sandia 340 to the KI-300. From a thread on BT they are not taking care of current customers. Someone just purchased a 340 that has an internal problem and the company said tough luck 60 days before we can work on it. Not something I would want to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxMike Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 The FIKI question asked earlier maybe a reminder that booted airplanes still need a vacuum/pressure system. Mooney FIKI needs only electricity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Mark89114 said: What is the certification issue with G5 and FIKI airplanes? I have seen that reference several places but no understanding of what's what. I believe since the G5 is dependent on pitot-static, if pitot or static ice over you get a red X, meaning you lose Attitude Reference. Until there are 10's of 1000's of hours behind these units I am still more comfortable with a Mid-Continent Lifesaver Electric Gyro with battery backup. These have 7500 hours mean time between failure and people are taking these out for EFIS backups making them very affordable compared to their new list price of $4500. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said: I believe since the G5 is dependent on pitot-static, if pitot or static ice over you get a red X, meaning you lose Attitude Reference. I have a hard time believing this. Why would pitot static affect attitude? I've flown various Garmin glass (g1000, G2000, 500, etc) and they don't behave this way. The only thing that can adversely affect attitude is loss of GPS signal (slightly but it uses the GPS to maintain alignment) I'm actually a Garmin "Factory Authorized Instructor" in the Turbo 206 with G1000. I'm told that and $5 will get me a cup of coffee. But it was a fun 7 days at the Kansas factory. -Robert Edited August 14, 2017 by RobertGary1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Mark89114 said: What is the certification issue with G5 and FIKI airplanes? I have seen that reference several places but no understanding of what's what. Are we talking about primary or backup? The G5 is not certified as a backup and Garmin does not recommend it even if you get a field approval. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 17 hours ago, Greg_D said: While it won’t require any new “boxes”, it will require a digital to analog converter harness that will be sold separately if you are connecting it to a KFC150 or KFC200. The BK folks said that was going to run between $600-$1000. Digital to analog back to digital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said: I believe since the G5 is dependent on pitot-static, if pitot or static ice over you get a red X, meaning you lose Attitude Reference. Until there are 10's of 1000's of hours behind these units I am still more comfortable with a Mid-Continent Lifesaver Electric Gyro with battery backup. These have 7500 hours mean time between failure and people are taking these out for EFIS backups making them very affordable compared to their new list price of $4500. I asked this of Garmin while at Oshkosh, the answer was it does not "X" out, it will loose some of its accuracy while it switches to GPS calculations, but it will not die. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 1 hour ago, M20Doc said: I asked this of Garmin while at Oshkosh, the answer was it does not "X" out, it will loose some of its accuracy while it switches to GPS calculations, but it will not die. Clarence This is my understanding as well. The problem is the unit is not TSO'd to use as a backup of any kind. I think @LANCECASPER is correct the FIKI issue is they did not certify the AI to work without the pitot input working which I assume interferes with the FIKI certification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooperd0g Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 Just so I understand, do you have to have a backup AI if you have a G5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, Cooperd0g said: Just so I understand, do you have to have a backup AI if you have a G5? No, it is approved as a primary only and not as a back up, which seems weird. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, M20Doc said: No, it is approved as a primary only and not as a back up, which seems weird. Clarence Although if you don't use it to replace you AI, you can use it to replace your turn coordinator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooperd0g Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 Is a back up AI required for IFR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 17 minutes ago, Cooperd0g said: Is a back up AI required for IFR? No backup is required. Im curious if it is legal to install in the T&B location if the plane is FIKI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooperd0g Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 Then installing a G5 should let you ditch the vacuum system, correct? Unless you need it for something else like an existing autopilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Cooperd0g said: Then installing a G5 should let you ditch the vacuum system, correct? Unless you need it for something else like an existing autopilot. If you have a air driven DG you will need a pair of G5's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooperd0g Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 Ah, yes. Thank you. The M20C I'm trying to buy has a G5 mounted off to the side with the old panel layout still in place. It also has a GTN650. I'm told the wing leveler still works well and I think that requires the vacuum system. However, when the GFC500 comes out I can see adding a second G5, cleaning up the layout, and upgrading to the autopilot. Then the vacuum can be pulled out and maybe save a bit of weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 39 minutes ago, Cooperd0g said: Then installing a G5 should let you ditch the vacuum system, correct? Unless you need it for something else like an existing autopilot. With a dual G5 system but even the Garmin G1000 glass cockpits system have a vacuum pump for the emergency standby attitude indicator. I'm keeping mine. -Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravoman Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 I was told the G5 not certified as a backup but I am fuzzy as to whether that only means it can't be a backup to glass. In the plane I am installing the G5 all I have is a vacuum driven AI so I don't believe it applies to that. Even if it did who says I can't use it as a backup if I so choose? I am installing it for the very reason that I want redundancy on the panel for attitude reference, with one having battery backup and not connected to the vacuum system. Can't the two be coprimary or is there not such an animal? I have thought about the Castleberry and mid continent offerings for a long time but what made me pull the trigger on the G5 is the gps and other functions it has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) It can't be a backup to a pfd that requires a backup. The only stc legal places to mount the AI G5 is the primary location if you do not have a flight director or the turn and bank location if you do. However, I really can't believe someone would give you a hard time if you placed the additional life saving device off to the side instead. ...not really sure why I keep repeating this BS legal crap. What you should do is put it where it will be most helpful and find a reasonable person to get it field approved...like @gsxrpilot Edited August 15, 2017 by Godfather 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 7 hours ago, RobertGary1 said: With a dual G5 system but even the Garmin G1000 glass cockpits system have a vacuum pump for the emergency standby attitude indicator. I'm keeping mine. -Robert Not so, Cirrus, Diamond and Mooney use an electric back up AI along with a G1000. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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