MIm20c Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 I'm looking to have a portable oxygen tank setup available for my plane. What are the requirements for using a portable system in the plane? Does it need to be current with hydro testing? What about life limits? In my case I have an old steel tank (filled) that was last hydro'd in 2011. Can I use it until depleted or should I take it in before it is used? Also I have access to a free Kevlar 115 tank that is 16 years old (one year past life limit). Is it against regulations to use in a plane as a portable system? I know it can't be installed or used for commercial operations (fire fighter etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 I'm looking to have a portable oxygen tank setup available for my plane. What are the requirements for using a portable system in the plane? Does it need to be current with hydro testing? What about life limits? In my case I have an old steel tank (filled) that was last hydro'd in 2011. Can I use it until depleted or should I take it in before it is used? Also I have access to a free Kevlar 115 tank that is 16 years old (one year past life limit). Is it against regulations to use in a plane as a portable system? I know it can't be installed or used for commercial operations (fire fighter etc). I know before I built an O2 transfilling system, if I brought a cylinder in for refill, if the hydro date was expired, they wouldn't fill it. I have a company near me that does the hydro testing so getting the tanks tested isn't such a big deal. Personally, I would want the tank tested before I started hauling it around. http://www.mhoxygen.com/images/documents/hydro_jan_26.pdfSent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 AFAIK, there are no FAA regulations related to portable oxygen systems. There are no minimum requirements or TSO's that need to be met. The only person who will have a problem with an out-of-date cylinder is the supplier you buy the oxygen from. On the other hand, if you fill a current tank and then transfill to an out of date tank, I suppose nobody would know. I think aluminum cylinders need to be hydro tested every 3 years. I think it cost about $10-15 at my local welding shop. It's cheap and I think that is important since aluminum does fatigue. I don't know if steel or carbon fiber cylinders have different limits, though I bought oxygen cylinders here. Order tanks with the "low-profile valve" option, so the regulator sits vertically instead of horizontally http://www.cramerdeckermedical.com/category.php?category_id=2 with this regulator https://www.lifemedicalsupplier.com/compact-regulator-opa520-0-15-lpm-cga-540-barb-outlet.html with the MountainHigh needle valve/flow gauge http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/portable-constant-flow/constant-flowother/79-xcp-mh3-a-mh4-flowmeters and Oxymizer cannulas http://www.shoplet.com/Drive-Medical-Conserving-Nasal-Device-Continuous-Flow-Oxymizer-Adult-Mustache-Style/MCK22413900/spdv?gclid=Cj0KCQjwq7XMBRCDARIsAKVI5Qa5BY6RkRwEhmHVqDkyeZ5JztjgX_XWiAF9lkl-MjpwbVExaCN0_o0aAhs0EALw_wcB Total cost was about $250 for one person and tank. Two people and one tank would be $350 (with two needle valves and two oxymizers) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 I would not "portable" a kevlar tank. Chips/scratches in the wrong place could be bad. You could create a cover for it. Or convert it to a tire filling system at lower air pressure. Steel tanks are 10 years I think. Buy a transfill adapter off ebay. Fill SLOWLY. Steel is real. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 I haven't measured but I'd guess that 115cu ft tank is 3.5 feet long just guessing from looking in the back. Kind of bulky. Probably also lacks a manual valve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Summary... 1) elasticity of tank materials changes over time. 2) pressure allowed in a tank depends on the material of construction. Aluminum tanks get a reduced pressure limit over time... 3) lifetime limitations are based on material science. 4) Limitations on filling are done at shops that fill the tanks. 5) hydro testing is pretty easy to get done, if the tank allows it... 6) Using a a tank that is outside it's known life limitations. Is a pretty strong unknown... 7) There are plenty of videos that show the destructive force of tanks gone awry... (not Jaws the movie... ) 8) Setting up your own transfill station is a great idea, when you follow the known guidance... 9) Setting up a transfill station to allow the use of a bad tank, would be un pilot like... 10) There are so many tanks available in the used market it wouldn't make any sense to use one that can't be hydro tested for safety reasons. 11) valves and regulators should be reviewed for useability in the new portable aviation application... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 True there are no FAA regulations on the tanks, just when 02 is required and how it needs to be dispensed in the cockpit. But this is simply because pressurized gas cylinders are already regulated by DOT. DOT does not allow filling the tank after the hydro has expired and they require removing the tank after its life time has expired. So nobody is going to fill it without being in violation.The 115cf Kevlar tank is huge - no way could this one be considered portable, much less carried on board through the front door and secured in the cockpit when full.All that said, portable O2 is a great supplement to any Mooney and I am sure you can find some used portable systems out there.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Depending on the budget and mission a small portable tank and something like a pulse demand system, o2d2 or the precise flight version would be great and last quite awhile. You could probably get a portable bottle to give you as many hours as that 115cu ft tank would without pulse demand. Unfortunately, none of it is cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted August 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I appreciate all the responses. I looked up info on my steel tank and despite the fact it is 40 years old and heavy it theoretically has an unlimited life as long as it passes the hydro. I did speak with sky ox at OSH and they gave me a contact for someone who still overhauls the older regulator. I'll probably only use this once in a while with my C so I don't want to go overboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted August 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 8 hours ago, jaylw314 said: AFAIK, there are no FAA regulations related to portable oxygen systems. There are no minimum requirements or TSO's that need to be met. The only person who will have a problem with an out-of-date cylinder is the supplier you buy the oxygen from. On the other hand, if you fill a current tank and then transfill to an out of date tank, I suppose nobody would know. I think aluminum cylinders need to be hydro tested every 3 years. I think it cost about $10-15 at my local welding shop. It's cheap and I think that is important since aluminum does fatigue. I don't know if steel or carbon fiber cylinders have different limits, though I bought oxygen cylinders here. Order tanks with the "low-profile valve" option, so the regulator sits vertically instead of horizontally http://www.cramerdeckermedical.com/category.php?category_id=2 with this regulator https://www.lifemedicalsupplier.com/compact-regulator-opa520-0-15-lpm-cga-540-barb-outlet.html with the MountainHigh needle valve/flow gauge http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/portable-constant-flow/constant-flowother/79-xcp-mh3-a-mh4-flowmeters and Oxymizer cannulas http://www.shoplet.com/Drive-Medical-Conserving-Nasal-Device-Continuous-Flow-Oxymizer-Adult-Mustache-Style/MCK22413900/spdv?gclid=Cj0KCQjwq7XMBRCDARIsAKVI5Qa5BY6RkRwEhmHVqDkyeZ5JztjgX_XWiAF9lkl-MjpwbVExaCN0_o0aAhs0EALw_wcB Total cost was about $250 for one person and tank. Two people and one tank would be $350 (with two needle valves and two oxymizers) Those prices are amazingly cheap. Any drawbacks using the above tank and regulator? I could not even get mine overhauled and back in action for that amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) Well, they're not approved for aviation use for starters. The oxygen regulator is a pressure regulator, but calibrated in LPM flow rate, so it's unlikely to be accurate at altitude. That's why I use the MH valve and flow meter also. I set the regulator to 2 LPM, and use the flow meter to set the proper flow (and have visual confirmation of flow) love. At 12k MSL, I got about 7 hours for 2 people from a D cylinder. Using a CGA-540 valve means no questions asked filling with O2 at the local welding supply shop. They can be leery of filling medical cylinders, and the CGA-540 valve is their standard. My D size cylinder (240 L) costs $12 to fill there. The guys there always ooh and say about how nice my cylinders are. It's a little creepy Edited August 12, 2017 by jaylw314 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTaylor Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, MIm20c said: Those prices are amazingly cheap. Any drawbacks using the above tank and regulator? I could not even get mine overhauled and back in action for that amount. They should be fine. The regulator is designed to provide a reduced pressure from the tank. I would include a flow meter in the line like a MH so you can confirm you are getting proper flow for the altitude. Get a MH oximizer flow meter and use the oximizer canulas and the tank will last a long time. I have an aluminum tank and a MH O2D2 system I carry in the plane most of the time. I fly in the west and it comes in handy on days when there is a nice tailwind up high. I used it a few weeks ago to climb above the smoke from one of the big fires in California. My wife likes it because it reduces the headaches she gets from flying higher than 10k for long periods. Edited August 12, 2017 by TTaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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