201er Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 They let the Russians fly military planes over the FRZ and Trump's golf course TFR and they prohibit American citizens from flying harmless little planes anywhere near those places!? http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/09/us/russian-air-force-tu154-overflight-dc/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhop Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Yeah... I just read that this evening too. It's time to end some TFR's... it's not like they are going to stop another 9/11. There may be air defenses around the WH and Pentagon since 9/11 but all the other TFR's? I'd like to see the report that tells the story that law enforcement, DOD, or DOJ has assets in place to do anything but intercept you for game or Disney TFR's. A TFR is not going to stop someone with criminal intent from intentionally crashing any type of aircraft anywhere except DC and around the president. In my opinion, the DC area TFR and Wildfire TFRs are the only valid reasons for them... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 It's not a violation if it's permitted. It's allowed by treaty we get to do it too and there are Americans on board. All part of trust but verify. Has nothing to do with TFRs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Those open skies flights are very high priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted August 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, gsengle said: It's not a violation if it's permitted. It's allowed by treaty we get to do it too and there are Americans on board. All part of trust but verify. They trust a foreign military airplane in "critical security" airspace and not citizen civilians in harmless little aircraft! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 They trust a foreign military airplane in "critical security" airspace and not citizen civilians in harmless little aircraft! But Mike, everyone knows you carry parrot guided bombers. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 13 hours ago, 201er said: They let the Russians fly military planes over the FRZ and Trump's golf course TFR and they prohibit American citizens from flying harmless little planes anywhere near those places!? http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/09/us/russian-air-force-tu154-overflight-dc/index.html The title of your thread, "TFR/FRZ violation permitted" is misleading and plain incorrect. It is not a violation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolter Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 11 hours ago, jonhop said: I'd like to see the report that tells the story that law enforcement, DOD, or DOJ has assets in place to do anything but intercept you for game or Disney TFR's. A TFR is not going to stop someone with criminal intent from intentionally crashing any type of aircraft anywhere except DC and around the president. In my opinion, the DC area TFR and Wildfire TFRs are the only valid reasons for them... Fullerton (KFUL) is right next to the worst abuse of TFR, the Disney PERMANENT TEMPORARY Flight Restriction. Your congress at work...for lobbyists! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autopatch Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 12 hours ago, 201er said: They let the Russians fly military planes over the FRZ and Trump's golf course TFR and they prohibit American citizens from flying harmless little planes anywhere near those places!? http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/09/us/russian-air-force-tu154-overflight-dc/index.html They "know" who the Russians are. They don't "know" who we are. It's all in who you know and if you're in the "cleared" crowd or not. Instead of solving the problem of verification, the solution instead is to just drop a blanket. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 They trust a foreign military airplane in "critical security" airspace and not citizen civilians in harmless little aircraft! This is a military flight with Americans on board, by a party that could nuke us if they felt like it, they would be held quite accountable for anything that happened. Strategically this level of bilateral transparency is very stabilizing. (We get to do the same to Russia) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted August 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, Dan at FUL said: Fullerton (KFUL) is right next to the worst abuse of TFR, the Disney PERMANENT TEMPORARY Flight Restriction. Your congress at work...for lobbyists! Mickey Mouse can't get his sleep with all them aeroplanes buzzing overhead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Forgetting the TFR, a treaty of this nature is absurd, really. How stupid is the worlds government's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhop Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Danb said: Forgetting the TFR, a treaty of this nature is absurd, really. How stupid is the worlds government's I'm of the opinion that these flights are good.... They are mutually coordinated and have been occurring for decades... They were/are used to prevent future Gary Powers incidents between the US and Russia, as we each attempt to verify each other's guaranteed mutual destruction. As Sting put it in a song.... I sure hope the poor individuals who have their fingers on the button, love their children. I know I do... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Took 45 minutes to get a VFR departure out of CDW yesterday...... totally sucks....I am vetted to fly in the DC FRZ but I can't fly VFR in my own backyard without the hassle of major delays. This weekend there will be TFRs on top of TFRs. I called secret service who controls all this bullshit and they had no comment and gave me bogus numbers to call and complain. I called AOPA who I pay over 150 bucks a year for their advocacy and they do not give a crap either. The woman on the phone who handles their security/tfr issues did not even know where caldwell airport was. She kept referring to NJ as New England and in the conversation I made a reference to Meiggs field in ORD and she said she never heard of it. I feel sorry for all the business that are suffering over this crap. If this is the future and AOPA will not help out I am probably going to move my plane back to the west coast...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Then the nex POTUS will be from Ca'. Ya can't win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted August 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 10 hours ago, Jim Peace said: I called AOPA who I pay over 150 bucks a year for their advocacy and they do not give a crap either. This is why I'm not a member. They would just divert my dues for paying the organization's useless president's exorbitant salary. I stopped renewing when the only time I wrote to AOPA was about overreach of VIP TFRs and they wrote me a response explaining/defending the TFRs instead of attempting to do something about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 5 hours ago, Danb said: Then the nex POTUS will be from Ca'. Ya can't win At least I can fly my plane. I win a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Treaty makes sense. They fly over D.C. Making certain we don't stockpile there. Had Saddam done this he might still be in charge of his sand heap. i don't object to that. I object to bullshit security theatre that makes criminals out of law-abiding patriotic Americans for the sin of navigational errors. I object to the SS being a legislative body all on its own, able to do whatever they want to whomever they want just to achieve their objective. Sorry, the POTUS isn't sacred. A bunch of American Presidents got whacked in office and the show went on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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