gitmo234 Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Gents, i was tricked by smooth air today. Landed around 7pm eastern and it was glass coming in. With it being so nice and soft I paid a little less attention to speed and flared a bit to high. I was looking at the runway ahead of me (which angled up) vs where I was. I bounced her 3 times. bounce 1= rear wheels bounced 2 = rear then the nose gave it some throttle (a practice from my 172 on one bounce) when I started to go nose down bounce 3 = rear wheels but very low followed by a landing. Maybe 6 inches it seemed. A visual inspection after showed no damage to any of the gears and there was no prop strike. The bounces weren’t hard either. Definelty a bounce but not a jolt to the body. posting this for a couple of reasons. This was a horrible landing and when I screw it up like that it bothers me so I’ll post to get it off my chest and pledge next time just to go around. That was the dumbest part of all of it. Why I didn’t? I have no idea. Finally, with no visual damage, no wobbling, strange noises or anything from the gear on taxi, is there anything I should be concerned about (other than not going around) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 The gear is pretty robust. If your Mooney has inner gear doors, I have seen a couple of Mooneys that hit hard enough to make contact with them. Even as a long time Mooney, there are still occasions where I could have done a better job landing. The main thing is to get out of Dodge when you bounce it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gitmo234 Posted August 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Marauder said: The gear is pretty robust. If your Mooney has inner gear doors, I have seen a couple of Mooneys that hit hard enough to make contact with them. Even as a long time Mooney, there are still occasions where I could have done a better job landing. The main thing is to get out of Dodge when you bounce it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Go around will be the new standard. I’d like to caveat this with the fact that a passenger would have slep through my last two landings 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Go around will be the new standard. I’d like to caveat this with the fact that a passenger would have slep through my last two landings And that is the challenge of landing a Mooney. Just when you think you have it down pat, she'll humble you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 I thought your recovery from the 2nd bounce by adding a little throttle and landing normally was good. I did that (in a Skyhawk) on my solo, and impressed some people who were watching. It is sometimes needed in the Mooney, and I do it then, too. If I bounce hard, or start to porpoise, I go around, but it seems that happens less and less, although I do still have trouble with over shooting final when base has a tailwind. In that situation, I just hold the bank angle constant at my normal turn (~standard rate)a and fly back to the runway; if I'm too wide to recover, I go around and pay more attention the second time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Marauder said: And that is the challenge of landing a Mooney. Just when you think you have it down pat, she'll humble you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Yep 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Way to own it, Gitmo... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Trim aaallllllll the way thru the flare. Just before she is about to stall then pull the yoke slowly into your stomach for the perfect squeaker. Do not drop the nose or release back pressure on the yoke until the mains are firmly on the runway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Over the numbers, idle power, and just hold it off, don't let it land, don't touch the power. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 And that is the challenge of landing a Mooney. Just when you think you have it down pat, she'll humble you. And she'll wait till you have an audience to do it. Passengers add distractions, weight that you're not used to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75_M20F Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 7 hours ago, Bartman said: Trim aaallllllll the way thru the flare. Just before she is about to stall then pull the yoke slowly into your stomach for the perfect squeaker. Do not drop the nose or release back pressure on the yoke until the mains are firmly on the runway. That might make a potential go around pretty interesting with all trim don't you think? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 I thought that the Mooney trailing link gear design made the plane a "land o matic"? Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyK Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 9 hours ago, gitmo234 said: I’d like to caveat this with the fact that a passenger would have slep through my last two landings Closing their eyes because they are scared to death doesn't count as sleeping. They aren't all going to be diamonds. Just learn something and move on down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Coming in a little fast or with a little power on will set up for out of trim on flare, which can result in less than smooth landing due to the extra weight on the yoke. Especially if you're not used to landing up hill. Couple years ago, I had a hard landing going up hill. It can trick you and if you're not ready to add a little blurp of throttle, she will buck you. Just a little blurp of throttle can really make a world of difference between good and miserable landings. Retrim as soon as throttle is fully closed and put hand back on throttle! Glad nothing broke! go fly a few around the pattern to get your confidence back asap!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbarry Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Not a CFI, but it seems one of the culprits in this scenario is how the sight picture was changing out over the nose as you transitioned into the flare. In other words, landing uphill can fool us into thinking we're closer to the landing surface, as we start to flare, than we really are just like a wide v. narrow runway site picture can change our perception.. (and the opposite is true landing down hill). I suspect most of us have been exactly where you were and most would probably agree that the old saying about any landing you can walk away from AND reuse the plane is a good landing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Uphill landings are different. So was my first 3° downhill landing, some extra "float" on that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcb Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Mooney_Mike said: That might make a potential go around pretty interesting with all trim don't you think? I think he means set the plane to fly hands off with perfect trim even before you are in the flare. Trim it to fly hands OFF (Cruise and the Pattern) and ESPECIALLY ALWAYS on Final (DO NOT LAND HANDS OFF). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 The times I've bounced a landing bounce once - okay. Be ready for the go around. Second bounce be adding power to get out of there. Typically the prop strikes occur on the third bounce. Practice go arounds enough that you'll feel comfortable with the impressive nose up attitude you'll encounter with full power, landing trim, flaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Mooney_Mike said: That might make a potential go around pretty interesting with all trim don't you think? I hear you Mike, and I'm sure your experience far eclipses mine and I'm no expert. I trim intermittently all the way thru the flare and don't end full nose up trim, but close. Gitmo started a thread before he picked up his new bird asking for "things you wish you knew". Copied and pasted below are my comments regarding aborted landings. I admit I scared the shit out of myself more than once EXACTLY like he described and it even affected my confidence for a while too. In addition to airspeed control over the numbers my CFI and I worked on this landing approach and it has worked well for the past several years. Yes if you have full flaps and lots of nose up trim it does make it interesting, but you must be prepared for it because it will happen when you least expect it. Depending on runway length, most of the time a short burst of power gives me the opportunity to fix a small bounce and straighten up and fly right. If one shot of power does not fix it then go-around in full stall landing configuration takes a lot of forward pressure on the yoke initially. It takes time to retrim nose down in ground effect BEFORE milking the flaps off slowly and expect the nose to pitch up even further as the flaps are released. I made the mistake of coming out of ground effect before retrimming and flap adjustment once, and all that did was make it worse and a second even harder bounce. That was expensive because I had to reupholster my seat because my ass bit a hole in it. Copied from the "things you wish you knew" thread.... 3. Continuing to trim the nose up in ground effect until touchdown is very effective, especially with the electric trim. 4. When you finally feel it stall in ground effect, pull the yoke smoothly and fairly quickly into your stomach for the perfect full stall landing. 5. Make sure you and your instructor practice aborted landings with FULL FLAPS, either from the bounce that you will no doubt do, or abort just before you are about to stall in ground effect. You may be surprised just how much forward pressure is required until you adjust trim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 1) Flying using the trim probably goes against your CfI's recommendation... 2) Using electric trim on final can put it all the way to it's limit, without telling you... 3) Expecting the trim to be moving when it stopped by a limit switch can be misleading... 4) Trimming on final while looking at the floor or panel can be a challenge... 5) Trimming near the limit needs to be monitored... you can put a hand on the trim wheel to sense it's movement... 6) in the traffic pattern... pull the power out some... or add the flaps... trim to match... test, by releasing the yoke. Does the nose drop, rise, or stay the same...? Trim more if it drops trim more if it rises leave if it stays the same... 7) on final... fly the plane plan the go-around Make sure the power is all the way out prior to landing 8) on the go around... (non-emergency) power can be added at a measured pace... power doesn't need to be full in all at once... practice before you have a plane load of people... know that landing trim and full power trim are on the opposite ends of the spectrum... 180hp to 310hp are the same handful when adding trim to adjusting power... expect to use right rudder to counteract the gobs of torque, rotation, and nose high issues... Don't Let the nose rise unabated. Abate the mis-trimmed driven nose rise. (Now that you expect it) 9) release the elevator...? after the nose touches down... after the braking is done... after the taxiing is complete... need for nose steering... Let me know what I missed... PP thoughts only, not a CFI... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Smasher Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 The best landings always happen when nobody is watching. That's the key. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 I know from experience you can jam the trip in the full up position, big problem if you had to go around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 I wonder if the Cirrus guys have issues with bounced landings as well. I think they use the same donuts as we do in their nose gear. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 18 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: Over the numbers, idle power, and just hold it off, don't let it land, don't touch the power. This is pretty much my technique, except I typically go to idle power long before the numbers. I started flying in a Champ and was taught power off landings from the very beginning. My instructor taught this way to teach emergency landing technique. About the only time I have ever approached under power is in a gusty wind I will apply a slight amount of power in case the bottom tries to drop out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Marauder said: I wonder if the Cirrus guys have issues with bounced landings as well. I think they use the same donuts as we do in their nose gear. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro That one is not in compliance with the las test S/B to reinforce the nose gear. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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