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1981 M20J Restored by Daytona Aircraft Services **SOLD**


jclemens

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4 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

It also had a 25k Tejas aero paint job from back before it got sold and went to hell.  Sanded and clearcoated then sanded again and polished. It was absolute. Yet still, a J can only bring so much. 

Paint is one thing, but that panel was something else. I'm getting moist just thinking of it.

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21 hours ago, Bryan said:

replace the KX170

The KX170 will probably outlast anything else in the panel. Although they look dated, they transmit powerfully (much better than a Garmin 430 or 530). Nothing wrong with it for a #2 radio.

Panels are very personal - no reason for Jake to put more money into the panel - let the next owner decide. You can easily find your way to your destination with that panel. Now is a good time to wait and see what's going to be available in the next 3 years.

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I have had a lot of interest in this aircraft from people who are discouraged with the engine time.  Say it needs an engine soon, I completely understand.  What do you think of this?  Pay my asking price for this aircraft now, fly it for a year,  If you get the engine past TBO in that time, I will overhaul it for FREE at the annual inspection.  Just an option I figured I would throw out there.  My other option is to take this back off the market and overhaul the engine, I think it would be a shame to do that to this factory engine before it's time, but if it's what the market wants...

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If I were in the market as a now-experienced owner I'd prefer the higher time engine and appropriately discounted price so I could fly until I'm ready to overhaul, and do it to my specs versus getting a new questionable backyard job or a low quality factory exchange. default_wink.png

 

I'm not sure of the details of your offer scenario, but it is innovative and might work for a somewhat local buyer. You could write some of the high time engine risk info the purchase agreement... I guess you guarantee XXX hours before an overhaul is required? Or you offer XXXX dollars toward an overhaul with your shop, or toward a factory exchange if needed before some date? Intriguing!

 

I'm afraid if you put 20k into an overhaul now, you'll only get 10-15K back at sale. And some prospective customer might not like a field overhaul while another might not like the factory overhaul given their quality issues.

 

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The market is fickle when it comes to engine time.

Personally, I think buying a high-time engine that is running well is a good deal if the seller has properly discounted it.

1.  Chances are, it will go beyond TBO...free hours.

2.  No "new engine failure threat".

3.  When it comes time to replace the engine, you get to make the decisions about new, re-man, overhaul and you operate that engine properly from the gitgo.

The big problem is that sellers rarely discount commiserate with replacement costs (firewall forward).

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It's probably a stupid idea.  I came up with it after I finished talking to two different perspective buyers that both claimed they intended on flying it over 300 hours the first year and that it would need an engine at the next annual.  I told one of them there was no way they would fly it that much, they would be lucky if they hit TBO in 4 years.  Even then, an overhaul probably wouldn't be justified, they would be able to run it at least 200 more hours.  That conversation ended with the buyer still repeating to me that "this plane needs an engine", even though there was clearly one hanging off the front of it that he was leaning on.  So, I told him if he got it to TBO in the next year, the engine overhaul would be on me.  

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5 hours ago, jclemens said:

It's probably a stupid idea.  I came up with it after I finished talking to two different perspective buyers that both claimed they intended on flying it over 300 hours the first year and that it would need an engine at the next annual.  I told one of them there was no way they would fly it that much, they would be lucky if they hit TBO in 4 years.  Even then, an overhaul probably wouldn't be justified, they would be able to run it at least 200 more hours.  That conversation ended with the buyer still repeating to me that "this plane needs an engine", even though there was clearly one hanging off the front of it that he was leaning on.  So, I told him if he got it to TBO in the next year, the engine overhaul would be on me.  

I fly that much in a year and will admit that you have to be in the airplane a bunch to do it. I think probably the only way to fly an airplane that much in a year would be if you are using it a lot for business travel and much of the traveling that you are doing are long cross country flights.

I purchased my K model at the end of October last year. It was in the shop getting a new panel for five months (Feb-July) so my flying was limited, but I've still managed to put 150 hours on it in the time that it was available to me.

i may be wrong about this but I've made an observation since joining this community. Mooney pilots seem eager to pick apart every aircraft that everyone is trying sell on this forum. Seems to me most people here would want you to sell your J for a higher price to improve the value of their own. The more these aircraft sell for the better off we are when we go to sell ours.  

I didn't think your initial price was out of line. If I had been a buyer and looked at your plane last October before I purchased the K, I would have scooped it up in a heart beat. I looked at lots of crap before finding my K. I hope you sell this aircraft for what you were asking for initially. I hate to see that you have dropped the price by so much. I think we as a community are shooting ourselves in the foot when we pick these aircraft that come up for sale apart. This is the first place most people will look when purchasing and some of the things posted here create an unrealistic expectation in buyers about the value of these aircraft that ends up hurting all of us in the long run. Just my two pennies.

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6 minutes ago, ziggysanchez said:

Mooney pilots seem eager to pick apart every aircraft that everyone is trying sell on this forum. 

I know people that refuse to list an airplane for sale here for that very reason.

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19 hours ago, jclemens said:

I have had a lot of interest in this aircraft from people who are discouraged with the engine time.  Say it needs an engine soon, I completely understand.  What do you think of this?  Pay my asking price for this aircraft now, fly it for a year,  If you get the engine past TBO in that time, I will overhaul it for FREE at the annual inspection.  Just an option I figured I would throw out there.  My other option is to take this back off the market and overhaul the engine, I think it would be a shame to do that to this factory engine before it's time, but if it's what the market wants...

I think that's a hell of a deal. 

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12 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

I know people that refuse to list an airplane for sale here for that very reason.

I won't ever list another one here unless the rules are changed.  Other forums strictly forbid coming into a sales thread and making posts other than asking pertinent questions related to the sale. 

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13 minutes ago, jclemens said:

I won't ever list another one here unless the rules are changed.  Other forums strictly forbid coming into a sales thread and making posts other than asking pertinent questions related to the sale. 

Yeah, it's not worth the effort. All you see are people that want to complain about aspects for the plane for sale.

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I couldn't agree more, they should only contain people interested in your plane, hopefully the adm will be able to figure out how to fix this inherent problem. As you know everyone here has there own issues some jealous, some arrogant i.e. if your plane isn't just like theres, theres an issue with it.

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41 minutes ago, jclemens said:

I won't ever list another one here unless the rules are changed.  Other forums strictly forbid coming into a sales thread and making posts other than asking pertinent questions related to the sale. 

Here's the policy that Beechtalk has, which I think is good: 

Generally speaking, it is considered bad form to "stomp" on someone's advertisement and, therefore, such practice will not be permitted in the Peddler Talk forum.

What's stomping? It is basically the posting of a comment that negatively impacts the original poster's advertisement. It can often relate to the quality of the item or the price. Therefore, starting immediately, please refrain from posting any negative comments about a listed item in the Peddler Talk forum, including negative commentary about the item, the price of the item, or other (perhaps cheaper) sources for the item.

In all fairness, this also relates to positive comments on pricing--we can't prohibit one and allow the other. Therefore, discussion regarding pricing in general is not permitted in Peddler Talk--however, it is permitted elsewhere on BeechTalk.

Thanks for your help. :thumbup:

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On 8/8/2017 at 11:27 AM, jclemens said:

Recent Maintenance:
•Aircraft restoration completed by Daytona Aircraft Services on 8/08/2017, Logbook entries and work scope here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/an5yadvl0334zs3/AAAnMVhoab4EGx7IUZHjsr9Sa?dl=0

Anyone who is seriously in the market for a J and reads all of the maintenance entries in the Dropbox files will buy this airplane. An open checkbook annual was done in addition to all of the upgrades.

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Here's the policy that Beechtalk has, which I think is good: 
Generally speaking, it is considered bad form to "stomp" on someone's advertisement and, therefore, such practice will not be permitted in the Peddler Talk forum.

What's stomping? It is basically the posting of a comment that negatively impacts the original poster's advertisement. It can often relate to the quality of the item or the price. Therefore, starting immediately, please refrain from posting any negative comments about a listed item in the Peddler Talk forum, including negative commentary about the item, the price of the item, or other (perhaps cheaper) sources for the item.

In all fairness, this also relates to positive comments on pricing--we can't prohibit one and allow the other. Therefore, discussion regarding pricing in general is not permitted in Peddler Talk--however, it is permitted elsewhere on BeechTalk.

Thanks for your help. 2thumbs.gif



The issue with enforcing is moderation. When you look at the other forums, we are a pretty civil bunch. It would require someone to moderate the thread and delete negative posts.

I do agree that posting things here for sale has always taken an unusual twist. I particularly find it humorous when the Grim Reaper posts some avionics for sale and someone posts they have one for less.


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46 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 


The issue with enforcing is moderation. When you look at the other forums, we are a pretty civil bunch. It would require someone to moderate the thread and delete negative posts.

I do agree that posting things here for sale has always taken an unusual twist. I particularly find it humorous when the Grim Reaper posts some avionics for sale and someone posts they have one for less.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

Moderation is simple. Designate some moderators.

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