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C Models not IFR?


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I am very excited to have gotten a hangar five minutes from where I will be living soon.  Many details will be posted due to my excitement about the hangar.

 

In the course of meeting people there I met an F Model owner.  Appears to be a great guy and a veteran pilot.  In the course of conversation he said: "so you are a VFR pilot."  I said yes, but working on my IR, how did you know?  He said, " no one messes with making a C instrument capable."

 

I was floored by this.  My plane has a 430W, DME, glideslope and is currently IFR certified.  Is it common fpr C's to not be IFR capable?

 

Thanks for your responses and comments.

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Sounds like an ignorant pilot. Most any airplane can be IFR capable, the minimum requirements are actually very few... There are plenty of C models out there that are flown in IFR all the time. Sounds like your current panel is a good start, the 430W is incredible in what it can do. 

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My 150 was IFR capable and I flew it in light IMC when the need called for it.

My C is more IFR rated than many later alphabet M20s I've seen. I'd be curious to understand the basis of his comments. Would an E model be "worth it" since it's fuel injected?

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Guest paulie

Lucky for you that this F owner immediately identified himself as a dope. Now you can take everything he has to say with a grain of salt. I like it when idiots show themselves quickly, saves a lot of time.

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I would not worry about that comment.  Some pilots do not like flying IFR in a carburated engine, and I suspect that is the reason behind his statement.  There are many experienced pilots that fly IFR regularly in C models and many other carburated models without any issues. 

Enjoy your C (IFR and VFR) and your hangar.

Fernando

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My C is also IFR certified and yours is better equipped.  Mine simply has the dual NAV/COM requirements kx155 with Glide slope and kx170b.  I think the most basic IFR you can get!  But, a great XO plane (especially for the $$$$)

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5 minutes ago, wcb said:

My C is also IFR certified and yours is better equipped.  Mine simply has the dual NAV/COM requirements kx155 with Glide slope and kx170b.  I think the most basic IFR you can get!  But, a great XO plane (especially for the $$$$)

Dual NavComms aren't required for IFR, nor is glideslope. Remember the pnemonic GRABCARD?

  • Generator or alternator
  • Rate of turn indicator (turn coordinator or turn & bank indicator)
  • Altimeter, sensitive (Kollsman window)
  • Ball (inclinometer, the ‘level’ component of a turn coordinator or turn & bank indicator)
  • Clock (digital display or sweep second hand)
  • Attitude indicator
  • Radios as required for navigation and communication
  • Directional gyro or heading indicator
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3 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Question.  It would certainly be far from ideal, but would a compass suffice as a "heading indicator" for these purposes? In other words, is a DG required for IFR?

No, a magnetic compass is required for VFR, the DG is above and beyond that for IFR. Heading indicator is referring to something other than a DG, such as a HSI or a Aspen, etc...

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Gather up all the years of experience the airplane has...

When it was built in the 60s, it cost less 20amu...

40 years later, GPS was commercialized...

MS didn't exist. There was no way to share an idea like having a GPS installed in your Mooney.

An installation of a GPS would cost more than the plane was currently worth.  

Anyone with a GPS was looking to get in installed into something newer.

Look around today.

Knowledgeable MS owners have installed full WAAS navigators and engine monitors with fuel flow and the works...

You have MS.

The rest, have OWTs and no way to determine the truth.

Ask your questions, read the responses, decide for yourself if you can get your old Mooney up to IFR flying...

Keep in mind flying IFR means different things to different people in different parts of the world...

My M20C was IFR capable with a single VOR/ILS and an ADF...  

Today, you can get a used Waas GPS/VOR/ILS in a single box... (wait, you have all this...!)

See if Grimmy has one @Alan Fox for sale...

Go easy on the people that don't have access to, or can't use MS.  They aren't evil.  They just don't have the skills required to be part of a thriving Mooney community.  

Go easy on all the M0Cs that weren't loved enough to merit a WAAS Gps... 

All Mooneys can be loved... it just takes a lot more love for some than it takes for others...

Some Mooneys are lucky enough to be housed indoors.  Others live out on a ramp.

Best regards,

-a-

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It's your airplane and your journey.  Make it and you as capable of the flying you're likely to encounter and thank God everytime you  say "clear prop" you're not in a partnership with that guy!

 

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As everyone else said above, that guy is crazy.  Your C will make an excellent IFR airplane.  I flew IFR all over the county in mine, loved every min of it.

Congrats on the hanger.  I live exactly 2 min from my hanger, unless there is a train.  Then it takes about 4.5min to go the extra 1/2 mile to the bridge.  Living at an air-park would be the only thing better. 

Cheers,

Dan

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1 hour ago, DanM20C said:

As everyone else said above, that guy is crazy.  Your C will make an excellent IFR airplane.  I flew IFR all over the county in mine, loved every min of it.

Congrats on the hanger.  I live exactly 2 min from my hanger, unless there is a train.  Then it takes about 4.5min to go the extra 1/2 mile to the bridge.  Living at an air-park would be the only thing better. 

Cheers,

Dan

Speaking of which, what happened to your plane?

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3 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

I really think his comment was serious.  The follow up discussion seemed to confirm it.

I would take his comment in the same vain of someone owning a G1000 equipped Mooney saying "no one would upgrade an F to a glass cockpit". I did. :)

IMG_0706.thumb.JPG.a0c7659a3c2370192508edace83cf990.JPG

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Guest paulie
6 hours ago, Gerbil said:

Lighten up everyone..... he had to be kidding. 

 

Gerbil

I worked as a line mechanic for 40 years with Braniff and AA, dealt with pilots every day. I have stories of stupidity and arrogance that you wouldn't believe.

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Summary...

1) Most of the C's IFR capability comes from what is behind the yoke. It can be trained.

2) What is in front of the yoke can be upgraded one step at a time.  It can be expensive.

3) It is a challenge to get the IR rating without a lot of different devices in the panel.  It may take Finding a CFII that will train you with the limited instruments that you have.

4) An important valuable instrument is one that will get you down to the ground when the weather falls apart.  ILS or GPS/WAAS approaches will do that pretty well.  

5) there is some pretty good portable equipment to back-up the limited panel equipment.  Sporty's sells a portable radio with ILS and VOR capabilities.

6) There was a time when the airframe carried all the value, the engine carried the rest.  Today, the instrument panel carries a lot of the value, the airframe may not be so much...

7) there is a lot of humor used when discussing the value of equipment installed.  It gets heavily discounted in conversation.  But so does everything else.

8) There are no guarantees,  putting new equipment in the plane may never get its value back.  It will help sell the plane compared to other planes that don't have a list of nav equipment...

 

PP thoughts only.

Best regards,

-a-

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Most of the C's I examined either in person or in silico had really weak IFR panels.  Actually, most of the Mooneys I examined had ick panels. Mostly older radio equipment. If there was a GPS it was VFR or nonfunctional.  I suspect those with good panels were simply out of my price range. That said, with a pitot static check any of those or mine could be flown IFR.  I am in no hurry to do so in mine as minimally equipped as it is.  The point of obtaining the rating for me is to use it, and not to practice on the few remaining radio approaches ad infinitum.  Good news is I will somwhat rectify its deficiencies in the very near future.  The gentleman was correct. Unless you can perform your own installations it is perilously expensive.

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