Descend Via

[Yooper Rocketman]

9 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Maybe a Brasilia or DO-328.  Those are pretty fast. But yeah, like you said, 280 is optimistic for almost all turboprops. 

The more I look the less it's likely there are ANY turboprops capable of 280 knots indicated.  The Brasilia and the DO-328 have VNE at 250k.  Wonder if whoever wrote that STAR knew what max turboprop speeds were?

[ChrisH]

A little googling found this: Interesting thread. 

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs400/afs470/pbn/media/Climb_Descend_Via_FAQ.pdf

20. Q. My aircraft’s MMO/VMO (e.g. VMO = 250 KIAS) is below a speed restriction published on the STAR (e.g. (WP Name) At 280 KT), or because of a MEL/CDL limitation, I am unable to comply with a speed restriction published on a STAR. Am I prohibited from flying the STAR?

A. NO. However, ATC may query you concerning the speed approaching the restriction. Advise the controller of the need to maintain the lower speed.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, ChrisH said:

A little googling found this: Interesting thread. 

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs400/afs470/pbn/media/Climb_Descend_Via_FAQ.pdf

20. Q. My aircraft’s MMO/VMO (e.g. VMO = 250 KIAS) is below a speed restriction published on the STAR (e.g. (WP Name) At 280 KT), or because of a MEL/CDL limitation, I am unable to comply with a speed restriction published on a STAR. Am I prohibited from flying the STAR?

A. NO. However, ATC may query you concerning the speed approaching the restriction. Advise the controller of the need to maintain the lower speed.

Here's the bottom line thing about STARs and SIDs. Ultimately, all they are is canned and charted arrival and departure clearances. They are exactly the same as what ATC would instruct if there weren't such a thing as SIDs and STARs (or someone files "no sids/stars for some reason]. Like any other clearance, it's primarily about traffic flow and traffic separation.  

Get that, and most of the rules and procedures about them become easier to digest.

For example, I'm not 100% sure on this point but AFAIK, there's no such thing as a "prohibition" on issuing a turbojet only SID or STAR to a piston. In most cases it's not done because it simple makes no sense. The STAR was designed to deal with the traffic flow of aircraft capable of operating at certain airspeeds and certain altitudes. Three AM, I don't see a regulatory or practical problem with assigning the SEWZY to a Cessna 152, other than (1) surprise by the pilot who hasn't expected it, (2) ATC would have to remove the altitude and speed restrictions and (3) did ATC really intend to assign. That's really the bulk of the issues I have with the assignment in this case, and they are easily cleared up with responding, "We're a piston aircraft; unable [speed and/or altitude as applicable] restrictions.

[Yooper Rocketman]

I flew into Anoka (just north of Minneapolis) on Saturday and was given a crossing restriction "cross 15 east of KANE at 4,000'".  I had a retired airline (and Air Force) pilot with me and we decided to start down right away.  Looking at my descent it was pretty aggressive, but even pulling power (we dumped a 100 knots) and the aggressive descent rate I found we were not going to make the restriction without a 360.  I called MSP approach and said "it looks like it's going to be tight making the crossing restriction", hoping he would have an option.  He came back immediately with "pilots discretion to 4,000'".  I would have missed it by 600' without a turn or the new clearance.  Good folks at MSP!

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N994PT/history/20170729/1230Z/KIMT/KANE/tracklog

Tom

[Immelman]

Descend via means you are cleared to descend at your discretion to the "bottom" of the STAR provided that you meet each and every speed and altitude restriction (or window) along the way. The speeds are indicated airspeed.....

ATC screwed up by assigning you this STAR. You screwed up by accepting the clearance.

This STAR is built for jet aircraft. Altitude and speeds on the STAR are part of your clearance unless waived by ATC; not even a fast turboprop will do 280 knots *indicated* which is what the restriction at SSOLO is.

 

[peevee]

The descend via clearance implies you will comply with speed and altitude restrictions as published unless it is amended by the issuing controller. Ie. Descend via the argument1 except speed 280 knots until stfuu

[flyboy0681]

On 8/3/2017 at 2:12 AM, jaylw314 said:

Thread hijack, sorry.

Has anyone else noticed the waypoint names?

Star Wars references - WINDU, SSOLO, VADRR, JEDYE

Homage to Stevie Ray Vaughan - STVEY, RAYYE, VAWWN

I'm not sure what the connection with Smurfs and horses are, and who the heck is Sewzy?

 

 

The TRUKN Two departure out of San Francisco pays homage to The Dead with TYDYE, TRUKN, HYPEE, COSMC, GRTFL, DEDHD, TIPRE and SYRAH

Down here in Palm Beach we HAD  DONLD, TRMPP,  UFIRD and BRTHR (brother or birther?). There was also the IVNKA ONE arrival.