eman1200 Posted July 30, 2017 Report Share Posted July 30, 2017 I hate to do this because I know the seller is here on MS but 1) does anyone know if Savvy will send a mechanic to someone's field to do a pre-purchase inspection, and 2) @Bob_Belville do you know if the folks at AGL would send a mechanic out to a nearby field to do a PPI? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 eman, Lynn does work at several surrounding small airports from time to time. Give them a call with the specifics of what you have in mind. Tamara usually answers the phone. https://www.aglaviation.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman1200 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 eman, Lynn does work at several surrounding small airports from time to time. Give them a call with the specifics of what you have in mind. Tamara usually answers the phone.https://www.aglaviation.com/ Thanks Bob, I've sent her a txt and hope to hear from them tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Don't fear learning about an MSers plane... PPIs are a normal part of the business. Just be kind with what you find out. There can be some thoughtful ways used to present bad news... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 1 minute ago, eman1200 said: Thanks Bob, I've sent her a txt and hope to hear from them tomorrow. When Nancy and I landed from KOSH about 6:00 Saturday evening the shop was working. A lightening strike had cost them 2 days without power. (The MRN AWOS was still out of service.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman1200 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Yikes, that sux. I texted them the other day asking if I could possibly bring a plane there for a prebuy and she said they were on the road. But it doesn't look like bringing the plane there is an option so I'm trying to find someone to get to the plane. I expect I'll hear from them tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 What is it with owners/sellers who won't allow their plane to be flown, or to fly their plane a reasonable distance to a reputable shop, for a pre-buy, paid for by the buyer? It sure makes it suspicious to me that the seller knows something that they don't want the buyer to find. Is there any other reason a legitimate and honest seller would not want a pre-buy done on their plane? If I'm ever selling my 252... If a final price is agreed to, a cash deposit of approximately 10% is paid, and contract to buy pending the pre-buy is signed... I'll fly the plane myself to any reputable Mooney shop chosen by the buyer. The buyer will be responsible for reasonable expenses and the cost of the pre-buy. I don't think that's unreasonable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: What is it with owners/sellers who won't allow their plane to be flown, or to fly their plane a reasonable distance to a reputable shop, for a pre-buy, paid for by the buyer? It sure makes it suspicious to me that the seller knows something that they don't want the buyer to find. Is there any other reason a legitimate and honest seller would not want a pre-buy done on their plane? If I'm ever selling my 252... If a final price is agreed to, a cash deposit of approximately 10% is paid, and contract to buy pending the pre-buy is signed... I'll fly the plane myself to any reputable Mooney shop chosen by the buyer. The buyer will be responsible for reasonable expenses and the cost of the pre-buy. I don't think that's unreasonable. When I bought my plane the seller flew it down from Washington DC to NC for me to see it and to have my mechanic do an abbreviated PPI. No deposit, no commitment, I had not even made an offer. I paid my mechanic to cut the oil filter, check for corrosion, etc. and I bought fuel - one way. After we made a deal via email he delivered the plane and had his fiancee drive down from DC to pick him up. Her car was half full of stuff he threw in - 4 headsets, a creeper, a battery charge, several Mooney and aviation books including Larry Ball's nice hard cover "Those Remarkable Mooneys". Mike was a motivated seller, he was retiring and getting ready to sail around the world. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman1200 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 ...If a final price is agreed to, a cash deposit of approximately 10% is paid, and contract to buy pending the pre-buy is signed... I'll fly the plane myself to any reputable Mooney shop chosen by the buyer. The buyer will be responsible for reasonable expenses and the cost of the pre-buy.... We offered all of the above. Also, the owner wants to be there for the inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 1 hour ago, eman1200 said: We offered all of the above. Also, the owner wants to be there for the inspection. I don't know, but that seems even more suspicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldn0tded Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 9 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: What is it with owners/sellers who won't allow their plane to be flown, or to fly their plane a reasonable distance to a reputable shop, for a pre-buy, paid for by the buyer? It sure makes it suspicious to me that the seller knows something that they don't want the buyer to find. Is there any other reason a legitimate and honest seller would not want a pre-buy done on their plane? If I'm ever selling my 252... If a final price is agreed to, a cash deposit of approximately 10% is paid, and contract to buy pending the pre-buy is signed... I'll fly the plane myself to any reputable Mooney shop chosen by the buyer. The buyer will be responsible for reasonable expenses and the cost of the pre-buy. I don't think that's unreasonable. Hmmmmm, well I can tell you why I wouldn't let my airplane travel away from my home base for a PPI. First, I'll cite an article written by Mike Busch, and published in AOPA magazine in Oct, 2016. It's a long piece, and you have to read all of it. For those of you who aren't familiar with Mike Busch, he is a widely respected AP/IA, with a strong background in our type of airplanes. The link to that article: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/october/pilot/savvy-maintenance-tales-of-woe Second, just the sake of the discussion, let's say the PPI does exactly what it's meant to do, a legitimate grounding item is found, rendering the aircraft unairworthy. The buyer walks away, goes home, puts his feet up on the couch, and breaks out the latest edition of Trade-a-Plane, feeling very good about the wisdom of spending that $$$. On the other hand, the seller is away from home, with a bunch of strangers, that potentially have $$$ in the eyes, and DEFINITELY now have control of the airplane. Again read the cited article. If I were having a PPI done on my airplane, I would insist on it being accomplished in my hangar for two reasons: 1. I'd want my airplane under my supervision at all times 2. If something were found in my hangar, I'd have control over the repair as opposed to being presented with an invoice (with little or no input/options) Please understand, I'm not suggesting NOT to do a PPI, just that I'm not gonna put my $$$/plane in the hands of someone who MIGHT have different goals. Oldnotdead 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Although it appears to be a little too much drama he has his reasons. It is his airplane and he sets the rules. You either choose to abide or walk and look for another. When I bought my Mooney the seller offered to fly it to the MSC of my choosing for the inspection with the understanding that I'd pay for the fuel. I selected a reputable MSC not too far from him. Then when all was done we closed and he flew and personally delivered the airplane to me! We put it in the hangar and I gave him some private time with his airplane as I couldn't help noticing the emotions overwhelmed him a little bit. We had an early dinner and talked about the airplane and he gave me a lot of advice. Then I handed him his airline ticket and drove him to PHL for his flight home. Of course he had Dugosh maintain the airplane since birth. When I was performing my due diligence I spoke to Ronnie Kramer. He knew the airplane and the seller very well having maintained it for many years. He reassured me that the seller was one of the most meticulous owners with mx and would not postpone anything. Point being the seller knows the airplane he is selling, the mx history, and his habits. i.e. MSC maintained, has performed necessary mx or postponed it. In my opinion, and this is strictly my opinion, there are two elements in buying a Mooney. First try and find one through a reputable MSC that may be coming up for sale, and second find out what the maintenance habits and philosophy of the seller or sellers have been as far back as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I thought if the word "inspection" was used that had legal ramifications, maybe call it an evaluation instead, then legally they can't ground it. Busch has mentioned this in his videos, otherwise you would have IAs roaming the ramps looking for un airworthy planes. Call it a PPE instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman1200 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 see I didn't want to turn this into a back-and-forth with the owner, but I was hoping the details in the purchase agreement would address his concerns. however, it is currently his plane, so his rules. it's a deal breaker for me but my partner is trying to get this to work. as for some of the rest of your situations when you purchased, wow, you had some generous sellers. I'm sure they probably just wanted one last flight in to make some of those long distance trips. honestly I wouldn't even think to ask that from a seller. in this case, the MSC is 40 miles from it's home base. the mooney wouldn't even be warmed up by the time it got there lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 It's obvious to me, some of you don't want to sell There is no way a PPI can ground an airplane. Nothing is ever put in a log book. And it's not an inspection for legal or compliance purposes. You might make sure the A&P that the buyer wants to use is in agreement with that position. But it's a simple thing and shouldn't be cause for any concern that your airplane will be grounded away from home. The seller should agree that the buyer's A&P is reputable with Mooney expertise. Accidents do happen. Every time we fly, or work on the plane, we open ourselves up to the risk of an accident. That's what insurance is for. But thinking that standing around watching an A&P work, will prevent anything bad from happening is a bit ridiculous. As an example, if I'm buying an airplane within a 200 nm radius of Longview, TX and the seller won't fly it or allow it to be flown to Maxwell's for a PPI, I would consider that a dishonest seller with something to hid, and wouldn't give any further consideration to the airplane, and wouldn't recommend it to anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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