Jump to content

Aspiring Mooney owner needs a little help...


Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Godfather said:

No, posting it is not necessary. Enough has been said online already. I hope someone is able to buy this aircraft in the future and put 25-30k into the aircraft and enjoy it for the next 20 years. 

I have the money in hand to do that.  But I'm not doing it on that airframe.  I doubt it'd last another 5 years, let alone 20.

Nice try at suggesting I just don't have the money to buy an airplane.

I very much do.  What I don't have is money to be somebody's sucker.

Have a nice evening.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a second generation pilot, I had the benefit of tagging along with my Dad when he was shopping for his airplanes. When we lived in Southern California, this involved literally hundreds of trips to the many airfields within driving distance from where we lived in Santa Monica and later near Torrance. My Dad was very particular and under his tutelage, I learned a lot from him. Dad would like to find out where the airplane was based and, ideally, would check it out first without the owner being present. He was good that way in that he could usually tell within five minutes of looking at an airplane whether he had any interest in it or not. He didn't want to waste the owner's time if he had no interest in the airplane.

I was a part of this process that went on for several YEARS before he found a beautiful 1964 C model Mooney that he would buy and we would fly from Torrance to Philadelphia and back again. What made it even more special was that I was the one who spotted the Mooney with the For Sale sign in the window. It was a Sunday afternoon and we had just finished an early family dinner at Skytrails Restaurant. We took the drive North from the restaurant along the West side of Van Nuys Airport and I spotted N7106U parked next to the ivy covered chain linked fence. It was 1970 and I was 13 years old but I remember it like it was yesterday.

I think it is very difficult to effectively shop for and purchase airplanes that are far away from where you live. My experience has shown me that there are relatively very few airplanes that are for sale at any given time that you would really want to own. There are always plenty of projects out there just waiting for someone to come along and pay the "big bills", as Dad used to call them, but very few airplanes that are sharp looking inside and out, with low time on a good engine and up to date avionics. That is pretty tough to find and when you do, it usually comes at what appears to be a premium price and they usually don't stay on the market very long.

I said "appears to be a premium price" because after you take on a project and do the paint, interior, glass, soundproofing, avionics, etc...and deal with the aggravation, inconvenience and expense, that premium priced airplane will start to look a lot more reasonable. 

We are all different and have different priorities but buying a used airplane is a challenging and expensive proposition. It was so even back in the 1960s and 1970s when there were more airplanes around, more airplanes being produced and more airports to shop at than we have today. I have been fortunate to have owned two different airplanes and to have been an owner for 20 years and counting. I can tell you that it is irrationally expensive and sometimes very frustrating but still a very personally rewarding experience. I sincerely wish you  great success with finding your airplane!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BKlott said:

As a second generation pilot, I had the benefit of tagging along with my Dad when he was shopping for his airplanes. When we lived in Southern California, this involved literally hundreds of trips to the many airfields within driving distance from where we lived in Santa Monica and later near Torrance. My Dad was very particular and under his tutelage, I learned a lot from him. Dad would like to find out where the airplane was based and, ideally, would check it out first without the owner being present. He was good that way in that he could usually tell within five minutes of looking at an airplane whether he had any interest in it or not. He didn't want to waste the owner's time if he had no interest in the airplane.

I was a part of this process that went on for several YEARS before he found a beautiful 1964 C model Mooney that he would buy and we would fly from Torrance to Philadelphia and back again. What made it even more special was that I was the one who spotted the Mooney with the For Sale sign in the window. It was a Sunday afternoon and we had just finished an early family dinner at Skytrails Restaurant. We took the drive North from the restaurant along the West side of Van Nuys Airport and I spotted N7106U parked next to the ivy covered chain linked fence. It was 1970 and I was 13 years old but I remember it like it was yesterday.

I think it is very difficult to effectively shop for and purchase airplanes that are far away from where you live. My experience has shown me that there are relatively very few airplanes that are for sale at any given time that you would really want to own. There are always plenty of projects out there just waiting for someone to come along and pay the "big bills", as Dad used to call them, but very few airplanes that are sharp looking inside and out, with low time on a good engine and up to date avionics. That is pretty tough to find and when you do, it usually comes at what appears to be a premium price and they usually don't stay on the market very long.

I said "appears to be a premium price" because after you take on a project and do the paint, interior, glass, soundproofing, avionics, etc...and deal with the aggravation, inconvenience and expense, that premium priced airplane will start to look a lot more reasonable. 

We are all different and have different priorities but buying a used airplane is a challenging and expensive proposition. It was so even back in the 1960s and 1970s when there were more airplanes around, more airplanes being produced and more airports to shop at than we have today. I have been fortunate to have owned two different airplanes and to have been an owner for 20 years and counting. I can tell you that it is irrationally expensive and sometimes very frustrating but still a very personally rewarding experience. I sincerely wish you  great success with finding your airplane!

I have to agree with everything you just said.  My first look into airplane ownership was as a young IFR student many years back.  My grandfather owned several planes over the years, and told me flat out I could not afford even the more affordable, cheap airframes.   The club manager at my home field was a DPE and retired USAF bird colonel and expounded on the extreme costs, etc.   My own Dad, at one point an active airline Captain, considered a small plane to commute from our small town to his mainline base.  He quickly dismissed the idea as impractical.  Not many light singles that can handle a Minnesota winter.  

The real clincher was the IFR flight school owner who took me aside to show me his missteps.  He'd bought an old Cherokee for use as a trainer without having his lead mechanic look at it first.  It was being parted out because it was unsalvageable.  He then introduced me to his mechanic- who volunteered to go with me to look at a plane just for travel expenses.  Oh, the horror stories they could tell about things people do to airplanes and then try to pass off to other people.  I passed.  Good thing, too.  Got deployed six months later, and the airplane would have just rotted on the ramp.

... I really seriously started looking at airplanes here a little over a year ago.  I went to see a Mooney, and at first look thought it was a little cramped.  The broker showed me a Lance- I liked the fit of it.  He spun a great yarn about how it was priced low because the engine was closer to TBO than some folks liked.  Fresh new paint!  Brand new,  crystal clear windows.

Google's a wonderful thing.  The truth of it was right there- and somehow, never once did the words like 'salvage', 'extent of fire damage unknown',  or 'paint blistered, windows melted' cross his lips.  A fire had broken out in the adjacent hangar and charbroiled the airplane at an estimated 600-800 degrees F.  The forging temperature of aluminum, according to Google, is 600-900 degrees.  

I'll never buy an airplane from that man and would think long and hard about any that had ever passed through his hands.

I stopped looking after that, until now.  

It may well be a long and arduous process for me to buy an airplane. I may well have to adjust my budget upwards.

... but I don't think the problem is that I just have unrealistic expectations.  I wonder how my expectations would hold up at 600-800 degrees?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

I was watching a video showing a pilot being trained in Europe (Britain I believe), they didn't use a hood, I guess they use honor system?

The U.S. Air Force trains 1000's of pilots each year and nary a hood is worn.  In fact the only time I have ever worn a hood was for my ATP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The part I disliked the most while flying under the hood was taking it off in the transition to land.  

You can tell when someone is cheating on an instrument approach, they will get off course and or glide path an make no correction because they are happy with the visual.  Our currency requirement is pretty high and since I also instruct in the plane, I generally try to make things more interesting by flying full procedure with hold or PT and occasionally will fly an RMI only VOR or NDB generally to a circle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.