flight procedure

[Dream to fly]

Planning my trip to NY and not sure if I am taking my plane or renting another one.  Still waiting to see if the case is cracked.   As I near NYC I'll be in contact with NY radio and I'll probably have to go over the top at 7500 or higher.  If VFR and ATC requests a climb out that the plane just can't meet because of density issues and I attempt the climb but then respond "UNABLE to maintain climb" Does that get me in trouble or does ATC vector me out.  I really don't want to get into a situation that complicates a flight anymore than it is.   I'm sure the M20F can do it but if I end up using a Cherokee 180 I am not to sure.  

[peevee]

If you can't do it you can't do it, say unable and leave it to them to come up with plan b

 

Do not accept the clearance if you're unsure you can comply.

[Dream to fly]

Ok thanks.  I'll have to plan way ahead if I end up in another plane.  I am thinking this out way too much might have to postpone the trip.  I hate not being confident and that is the first sign of a no go.  I thought my plane was anemic the Cherokee is a whole other story.   I just don't want to be in NY traffic and have to deal with speedy communications and high traffic conflicts.

[TonyK]

I am not in the NYC airspace all that often but when I have gone through, over or around they have been very accommodating.  I'm sure the locals will chime in but I think you will find it a non event.  Just pay attention to the radios they are usually busy and the transmissions are fast and to the point. 

[Danb]

Joe all will be fine, comply with what you can inform them when unable to comply. They want things to run as efficiently as practical.

[N201MKTurbo]

The two times I've flown in NYC airspace it seemed rather peaceful.

Try SoCal if you want crazy.

[DVA]

I fly in this area all the time. The NY controllers are very friendly, but also very busy. If VFR you'll likely not be cleared through the Bravo unless there's a lull in the action. Just fly around over or under. If IFR just be on your best game, it gets fast and furious at times. I posted a video to YouTube a few months ago of an ifr flight to KJFK in VMC from my home base at KXLL. It's about 15 minutes long with all ATC communications and an interesting approach. 

 

 

[Dream to fly]

Thanks for the replies.  Gonna plan it out and see.  I should know Tuesday if my plane will be ready.

[Dream to fly]

1 minute ago, DVA said:

I fly in this area all the time. The NY controllers are very friendly, but also very busy. If VFR you'll likely not be cleared through the Bravo unless there's a lull in the action. Just fly around over or under. If IFR just be on your best game, it gets fast and furious at times. I posted a video to YouTube a few months ago of an ifr flight to KJFK in VMC from my home base at KXLL. It's about 15 minutes long with all ATC communications and an interesting approach. 

 

 

That is insane!!  AWESOME

 

[flyboy0681]

What a great, great video. My only criticism is that when you put the gear down there was no acknowledgment that it was down, or even a glance down to the floor looking for the green. Also, I would have had the tower frequency dialed in ahead of time. Other than that, this was a real treat.

I am also envious of that panel.

 

[Bartman]

You will be OK.  Just listen closely, be prepared to repeat instructions without delay, do what they tell you, and don't accept any instructions you cannot comply with.  I would review the airspace well, and have all expected frequencies and runway information at hand.  Busy airspace sounds intimidating, but really all they are gonna do is tell you to climb, descend, turn left and right, and identify the runway and traffic, and you have been doing that all along so not as big a deal as it sounds.

Have fun !

[ArtVandelay]

I wish all Bravos had 7000' tops

[carusoam]

Going over the top is not that hard in a normally operating Mooney.  C at MGW was my favorite way to fly...

I used to go over it in a fully loaded C152, too...

There is A VFR way to cross it as well... look up the FAA training for the VFR corridor and get the training, and chart. All available online...

There is a VFR way around it too, under the ATC shelf, over the water...

ATC near NYC can be incredibly busy... and challenging to understand...

It would be a good idea to get flight following for the entire XC...

Review communication requirements to Enter a Class B airspace.  What you need to have and what you need to hear before entering... listening to DVA's video you can hear a VFR flight told to stay out of the Class B, 'too busy for you'.

Just PP thoughts, not a CFI.

Best regards,

-a-

[flyboy0681]

6 hours ago, DVA said:

 

 

 

 

Here is a picture I took from a 172 from roughly the same spot in April, 1981 while circling JFK on top of the TCA .

The only structure common to both pictures is the old TWA terminal. Gone as of last year is the Pan Am Worldport.

 

[Marauder]

Going over NY is the easiest way. I would hope your F can easily climb above the 7k top. If it can't, something is seriously wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[thinwing]

Op question stated he was going to NY...did he mean city or state...if not landing inside the Bravo and he can fly over ,there is no need for him to talk to anybody...

[StevenL757]

On 7/29/2017 at 10:42 AM, Dream to fly said:

Planning my trip to NY and not sure if I am taking my plane or renting another one.  Still waiting to see if the case is cracked.   As I near NYC I'll be in contact with NY radio and I'll probably have to go over the top at 7500 or higher.  If VFR and ATC requests a climb out that the plane just can't meet because of density issues and I attempt the climb but then respond "UNABLE to maintain climb" Does that get me in trouble or does ATC vector me out.  I really don't want to get into a situation that complicates a flight anymore than it is.   I'm sure the M20F can do it but if I end up using a Cherokee 180 I am not to sure.  

Joe, I'm back and forth through that airspace every few days at all altitudes - both above and below the Class-B, and can't remember the last time I had an issue.  The Cherokee 180 will manage that altitude (as my lesser-powered Socata TB9 did, and I know the M20F will), but as others have said, use "unable" if needed and they will work with you.

Also...if you're heading to Long Island (or vicinity), and your route permits, I suggest asking for direct JFK - preferably at or above the ceiling.  This keeps you out of the way of departing and arriving traffic at KJFK, so do offer this.  Depending on where you're going, and if their workload permits, they will descend you as needed into the "B" without you having to ask.  They treat the pilot/controller relationship as a team effort, so use that to both your advantages.  Prior to entering, something like, "would direct JFK and then direct (destination, or next fix) work for you?"  If they oblige, relax and fly the route.  If not, accept whatever they give, and add "happy to adjust as needed".  I can guarantee (and confirm) that this courtesy goes a long way.  You'll do fine.  It's less-complicated than many believe.

Steve

[flyboy0681]

Why is flying over the airspace at 7,500 even being debated from a performance point of view? 

[thinwing]

Not sure why he is concerned..7500 is only half a Cherokee 180 s service ceiling

[Dream to fly]

Been towing sorry for the delay,  @StevenL757  Thanks I appreciate the info.  As for why I am concerned I have been bouncing between airplanes and I know the M20F could do the trip but this Cherokee 180 that I will probably end up using is tired.  I just didn't know if ATF would give crazy requests and I not be able to achieve them because of performance issues.   That was my concern. 

[carusoam]

Banners?

 

Joe,

Which airport's are you planning to visit while out this way?

Best regards,

-a-

[StevenL757]

1 hour ago, Dream to fly said:

Been towing sorry for the delay,  @StevenL757  Thanks I appreciate the info.  As for why I am concerned I have been bouncing between airplanes and I know the M20F could do the trip but this Cherokee 180 that I will probably end up using is tired.  I just didn't know if ATF would give crazy requests and I not be able to achieve them because of performance issues.   That was my concern. 

Perfectly valid concern.  Their knowledge of your airplane's capabilities may or may not be up to scratch, so your plan to invoke "unable" as necessary is a good one.  As I mentioned, they will do their best to help you whatever your situation dictates, so this type of communication is excellent in helping them set reasonable expectations.

[StevenL757]

2 hours ago, thinwing said:

Not sure why he is concerned..7500 is only half a Cherokee 180 s service ceiling

True - however, I think he was anticipating slower-than-normal climb performance from the 180 and was concerned about that becoming a burden to ATC and/or himself in managing that particularly busy sector of airspace in that specific type aircraft.

[Dream to fly]

19 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Banners?

 

Joe,

Which airport's are you planning to visit while out this way?

Best regards,

-a-

I wish banners.  Actually Chevys and Fords.    I am planning on going to Brookhaven air field (KHWV) to visit my parents and family.  Haven't flown that airspace in 20+ years.  That is why all the questions.  I hate not being prepared I'd rather be over informed and cautious then in the dark and scrambling for info.