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Should I grab this abandoned Mooney?


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31 minutes ago, M20FanJesse said:

I do have the cash to pay for the plane and taxes.

If that's true you're in a much better position than most people your age. Not having a loan will make all the difference in the world. Having a girlfriend who is into aviation is a godsend. Looks like a rare find and one that will probably never happen again. Only you know your financial situation and if you think you can swing it I'd go for it but go in eyes wide open. Also, if you do go ahead with it please hanger it. Like someone already mentioned, the sun will slowly destroy this beautiful airplane and you'll regret it two years from now. I'd like to see some interior pics just to satisfy my curiosity. Good luck and keep us posted!

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7 minutes ago, kevinw said:

If that's true you're in a much better position than most people your age. 

T-Shirt sales have been really great lately, and a big reason why I think this might be possible. 

10 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

Thank you I will do this. I do have a full time job and a second income , but the second income is fickle, although has proven to be lucrative at least recently. I promote my shirts on instagram and post lot of pictures of airplanes to draw interest to my account. What I'm saying is that I'm pretty sure Id be able to write off the purchase and expenses of any airplane because it would absolutely aid in my business as a marketing tool. 

But what you say does concern me, definitely. At the very least its fun to think about haha 

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I would check the fuel tanks for leaks, fill it up and check next day for smells inside cockpit and external leaks. Check for corrosion at the usual places and borescope the engine. You should get some early indications of its status. Then go from there. If these major items are covered, your financial risk may be low assuming you get a good price. Good luck!

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Barn finds like that can be once in a lifetime.  Make an offer you can live with....they may or may not take it.  I actually found that it was easier to buy a plane when I didn't know better.  Later in life other priorities get in the way and give you more excuses not to buy.  I haven't upgraded because of all of this conflicting excuses...mortgage, wife, kids, now college, retirement, etc.  Much easier to recover at your age.  Make an offer where you can still afford to fix it and fly it.  If they don't take it, you can always say you tried.  No offer and you may forever regret it.  This assumes you do all the usual homework and assume it will need the work based on all of the good advice above.  Make sure the title is clean and transferrable.  Estates can get greedy.  Good luck, beautiful plane!

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5 minutes ago, jrwilson said:

If you made a 201/231 shirt; I'd buy one...  But as I've said this before, then I need a commission because at this point, I'm a consultant...

I can just write that off as well! :D

I think I will do a 201/231 actually. Front side only, would make it just $16, instead of $21 for front and back. I was thinking of making it with a full paint scheme, but that opens the door to everyone wanting a custom one. With the blueprint/outline, everyone is happy!

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3 minutes ago, M20FanJesse said:

I can just write that off as well! :D

I think I will do a 201/231 actually. Front side only, would make it just $16, instead of $21 for front and back. I was thinking of making it with a full paint scheme, but that opens the door to everyone wanting a custom one. With the blueprint/outline, everyone is happy!

Finally!  My badgering has paid off.  Since it's only $16, I may buy two, one for the daughter.  You make kid's sizes too, right?  If not, I get another commission for that idea!

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Just for kicks lets start a list. I think it is a really clean plane and could fly tomorrow with a new battery and an oil change after a run up. Not that I recommend that! As far as fair price the risk is with the buyer so it should be a deal. I think the past aviator at 96 would be delighted to see the new future aviator at 24 take this plane instead of a broker or parts guy. I don't know any of these prices but a guess would be. 

IRAN the engine $15K

Prop OH $2K

gyro rebuild $2K

battery $500

replace all rubber $4000

Additional unexpected expense $10K

 

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15 minutes ago, kmyfm20s said:

Just for kicks lets start a list.

 

Even if this whole thread ends up being just for kicks, its still fun to think about! I've always day dreamed about barn finds, both in aviation and cars! 

Thank you for the list breakdown! 

 

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If it's something you want to do and the finances are palatable to you, including making it airworthy and chasing stuff that breaks from having sat for so long for the first few years of operation, then there's no reason not to go for it.   Paying up for a well-maintained, often flown, reputably PPI-ed airplane has risks, too, and the kind of adventures you just found don't come along very often.

If it was me I'd be all over it, but I like projects.

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It sounds like you are going to buy the plane, try to write it off, let it sit outside for over a year before working on it, and progress from there very slowly.

The above sound like a very BAD idea. If you truly want his plane buy it with the intention of working on it asap and borrow the money to make minimum repairs to get it airworthy.  If you need years to build up money to fix the expected please pass on this plane. 

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24 minutes ago, Godfather said:

It sounds like you are going to buy the plane, try to write it off, let it sit outside for over a year before working on it, and progress from there very slowly.

The above sound like a very BAD idea. If you truly want his plane buy it with the intention of working on it asap and borrow the money to make minimum repairs to get it airworthy.  If you need years to build up money to fix the expected please pass on this plane. 

The current idea is to buy it, wait a year before working on it, and then get it airworthy and fix squawks all at once. My thinking was, if I can get it for a very good price, and I can't work on it in a years time, I can just sell it for at least what I paid for it. I have a job that covers all my expenses, and a secondary income, equal to part time job income, that I set aside for fun money(instrument rating, fun car, etc.) If I don't spend any of that money and let it build instead, I feel confident I can pay for a 35k restoration in a year. If I don't have 35k in a years time, or know I wont in the future, I could sell the plane for what I paid for it, and be no worse off. At least thats my thinking. it sat for 28 years. Whats one more? I welcome criticism to this plan, and thank you for commenting. It has made me think twice about it. 

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Jesse, saw lots of comments regarding the engine.  Do not know how much time the engine has, but if the number is greater than 100, you may be lucky and skate.  I was looking at an aircraft that didn't run for 10 years.  I called a well established overhaul shop, and he stated that the engine should be fine.  Suggest that you and your mechanic boroscope the engine, (it is great that he is familiar with it by the way) and give a reputable OH shop a call.  It may be that the seals around the prop may be your biggest problem.  My bird was lightly used for a couple of years before I bought her, engine is immaculate, but I just had to do a prop reseal.  Prop was 81 hours since overhaul performed in 2014.  If there is no evidence of rodents or corrosion (check the tubing),  and you get good vibes from the shop, I wouldn't hesitate to go for it.

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So what is a fair price for this bird? We know the avionics are dated, there's plenty of risk involved, the consensus seems to be $35-40K to make it airworthy but it could be more depending on the engine. This is shooting from the hip but I'm thinking based on what we know a fair offer would be about $40K. If a J is what you ultimately want this may be your chance. I fly a J and they run cheap. $3,500 for annuals, basic maintenance such as oil changes I do myself, only burns 10-11 gph, insurance is $1,500 per year. Hanger rent is cheap but I'm not in CA. Things do and will pop up but (knock on wood) I've had no major setbacks. There are a lot of airplanes out there that are much more expensive to own and operate than a 201.

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While I am usually the voice of caution, this eerily matches a good friends experience with his plane. He bought a Commander 114 that had been sitting outside in the Alabama sun for more than a decade. Putting a new battery in it, filling it with fuel, and cleaning the points on one mag got it running after 10 minutes. Since then he has put several hundred hours on the engine, had a couple of expensive annuals (2 cylinders followed by an engine monitor install), and is now in the midst of redoing the interior in preparation to paint it. So these finds really do exist.

You might have a dog or it might be a deal, but you need to do some more investigation to make a decision.

"My only regrets in life are temptations successfully avoided."

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I say do it. If we all relied strictly on our common sense, none of us would have an airplane in the first place. Put in the time and do your research with your A&P. If it looks good, follow your dream, take the plunge. I'll order more T-shirts! 

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1 hour ago, Bug Smasher said:

I say do it. If we all relied strictly on our common sense, none of us would have an airplane in the first place. Put in the time and do your research with your A&P. If it looks good, follow your dream, take the plunge. I'll order more T-shirts! 

I have some new better ones uploading, stand by an hour! 

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21 minutes ago, peevee said:

If you have cash for the plane and a mechanic willing to work with you then go for it. It could end well, it could end badly. Either way you'll learn a lot.

That describes everything about life. ;)

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An option to consider.  Buy the plane at a reasonable price, invest the time and money to get it airworthy.  Sell three-fourths of the plane to 3 partners at a price that covers all your costs or more.  You took the risk and now will own 1/4 of a plane for your work.  Your expenses will be lower with partners so you can put it in a hangar like it should be kept.  With partners it will fly enough hours each year that the engine does not sit too much and you can share the cost of the panel upgrade across the four partners. 

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I took @donkaye post to heart the other day. If this plane is like 10% or more of your net worth. Put your money to work on building your net worth instead. Not his exact words, but they rung true for me.

Secondly, what are we talking about here? If you can afford to buy this plane for 50k cash and potentially drop 15-35k in it, maybe you are better off buying a turn key 201 with 30% down and borrowing money. After 5 years you'd a lot less cash in it and you will be able to tell your grandkids about that time you borrowed money at 4.5% to buy an airplane. 

Lastly if you are going buy it, you better get it so cheap that you have a chance to make money on the sweat equity you are putting in and the huge risk you are taking. You are doing the estate a favor, they have an uninsured airplane sitting in a hanger for what $400 per month? depending on the state they may be taxes too. Jeez someone stop the bleeding.

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31 minutes ago, CaptainAB said:

I took @donkaye post to heart the other day. If this plane is like 10% or more of your net worth. Put your money to work on building your net worth instead. Not his exact words, but they rung true for me.

Secondly, what are we talking about here? If you can afford to buy this plane for 50k cash and potentially drop 15-35k in it, maybe you are better off buying a turn key 201 with 30% down and borrowing money. After 5 years you'd a lot less cash in it and you will be able to tell your grandkids about that time you borrowed money at 4.5% to buy an airplane. 

Lastly if you are going buy it, you better get it so cheap that you have a chance to make money on the sweat equity you are putting in and the huge risk you are taking. You are doing the estate a favor, they have an uninsured airplane sitting in a hanger for what $400 per month? depending on the state they may be taxes too. Jeez someone stop the bleeding.

Haha! I don't have 50k cash at the moment, I don't know where that came from. The family wants to "just want to get rid of it" and asked Rick the mechanic what it would be worth ball park and he said 15-20k maybe. They thought the same so I figured thats about what they will ask for it and about what I could offer them. I know the market for these in working condition (because I window shop way too often) and thought if I put $35k into this $15k plane, I could have a $90k plane for $50k, even if it did take a year to get to that point.

Edited by M20FanJesse
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