Tommy Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Bennett said: I sold my DOVA about three years ago, and at that time the charts (and updates) were provided without cost. At least that is my recollection. I look back and think about the thousand dollar plus annual subscription costs I have paid to Bendix/King, and Jeppesen, and by those standards, the new Dynon charges seem very reasonable. For what it is worth, I coupled the Dynon SkyView units with a TruTrac autopilot as Dynon had not yet introduced their own autopilot. The TruTrack unit (two axis) was superlative, and absolutely reliable, and service free. One of the reasons I bought the DOVA was to utilize low cost experimental avionics. Again at that time, two Dynon SkyView glass panels, with all the options available then, and the TruTrac autopilot, totaled less than $9000. I had a new custom panel created (even though was a brand new aircraft), and so it is hard to break out the installation costs for the Dynons of and TruTrac autopilot, but it would be far less than equivalent certified avionics. Yes, this was a fully coupled IFR aircraft (but the Rotex engine was not the IFR version - not an unusual situation with LSAs). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk One simply cannot escape the irony of this... Pretty much sums up the counter-intuitiveness of FAA's bureaucratic and the administrative red tapes. Cheap reliable IFR avionics are only available to Non-IFR airframes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBCK Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 The unit itself is $4500, engine monitor $850, auto pilot $500 (head unit), I read it as $16,000 installed at their own facility in Seattle. I put my name on there list just to express my interest (looking for information list), I encourage others to do so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBCK Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Hot off the press: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Now here's the 60K$ question: Does the Skyview HDX provide attitude reference to third part autopilots, i.e. KFC150? Can the pfd/mfd be installed by itself without the autopilot and transponder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, FBCK said: The unit itself is $4500, engine monitor $850, auto pilot $500 (head unit), I read it as $16,000 installed at their own facility in Seattle. I put my name on there list just to express my interest (looking for information list), I encourage others to do so. From the video you linked above, $16k for the equipment alone. Combining that with the info in he website means the STC and install are separate. If I were interested in the unit I would get to the show and get in writing that $20k installed price. No way an AP, engine monitor, gps/nav integration, panel work, etc can be installed for $2k...or even $4k. Edited July 24, 2017 by Godfather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, PTK said: Now here's the 60K$ question: Does the Skyview HDX provide attitude reference to third part autopilots, i.e. KFC150? Can the pfd/mfd be installed by itself without the autopilot and transponder? No reason to keep the AP or transponder. Keep your 750 and let them take everything else out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Godfather said: No reason to keep the AP or transponder. Keep your 750 and let them take everything else out. That would be the classic example of false economy. An action which apparently saves money initially but, over a longer period of time, results in wasting more money than being saved! This is exactly the issue I have with the new stuff Garmin announced. It's great for some panels that may need an autopilot for example. Not so great for others because they force you to buy more than you may need. I have no reason to remove my autopilot at the present time. It works perfectly and I'm not inclined to take it out. If I need to revisit this decision in the future can I do so with the HDX? Can I, presently, choose to install only the pfd/mfd and remove my KI256 and vaccuum? Then add components in the future if the need arises? Does the HDX provide attitude reference to other autopilots and does it have this modular flexibility? That was my question. Does anyone have any news on the KI300? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 18 hours ago, Mark89114 said: BK isn't even in the game.... Or...are they??! http://www.bendixking.com/V4/KI-300 What many panels need is a simple way to address and remove the weak link in the vacuum system. A simple replacement of the ADI. That's exactly what the KI300 does. Nothing more and nothing less. They don't force you to buy more than you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Or...are they??! What many panels need is a simple way to address and remove the weak link in the vacuum system. A simple replacement of the ADI. That's exactly what the KI300 does. Nothing more and nothing less. They don't force you to buy more than you need. That's nice but the ki300 has been vaporware for YEARS. So what's the news from osh? Still mia?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Pricing is probably $16K of equipment, plus the STC plus installation. I had a little notice that something was coming, so I've been working on a replacement Dynon panel. See the Dynon Pricing Worksheet here: http://pricing.dynonavionics.com/ There's a For a basic single panel system the Dynon pricing probably looks something like this: Selected Items Here is a breakdown of your currently select kit. Part ID Name Qty Cost $13,110.00 SV-HDX1100 SV-HDX1100 10" SkyView HDX Display Bundle 1 $4,580.00 SV-ADAHRS-200 ADAHRS - Primary Module 1 $1,200.00 SV-GPS-2020 GPS-2020 Compliant Receiver / Antenna 1 $590.00 SV-GPS-250 GPS 5Hz Receiver / Antenna 1 $200.00 SV-ARINC-429 ARINC-429 Interface Module 1 $475.00 SV-BAT-320 SV-BAT-320 Backup Battery 1 $180.00 SV-EMS-220 1st SV-EMS-220 Engine Monitoring Module 1 $600.00 EMSKIT-L4F EMSKIT-L4F - Lyc./Cont./Superior, 4-Cyl, Fuel Injected 1 $680.00 SV-NET-SERVO SV-NET-SERVO - Network Autopilot Servo Cable Kit 2 $110.00 SV32 SV32 Autopilot Servo 1 $750.00 SV32 SV32 Autopilot Servo 1 $750.00 SV-XPNDR-261 SV-XPNDR-261 Class 1 Mode S Transponder 1 $2,200.00 SV-ADSB-472 SV-ADSB-472 Dual Band Traffic and Weather Receiver 1 $795.00 Add in the $2600 D10a and you're in the $16K ballpark. I've been cooking up a little more extensive panel redo. Not sure that I can move the radio stack, and not sure I want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 3 hours ago, PTK said: Now here's the 60K$ question: Does the Skyview HDX provide attitude reference to third part autopilots, i.e. KFC150? Can the pfd/mfd be installed by itself without the autopilot and transponder? That's a valid question. More broadly, does someone need to install the entire HDX system, or can you just install the parts you want? I have a modern ADSB transponder, and a stand alone AOA down by the windscreen, which I prefer than one in the panel, and an excellent engine monitor, so I would just as soon keep those in my panel, even if I relocate them. I would presume keeping those running would be no problem with installing an HDX system. I for one would not keep a legacy autopilot over the choice of any of this new wave of modern autopilots, including the dynon autopilot, which in this case, the incremental cost is less expensive than a single overhaul of a single servo of my KFC200. Not to mention the new autopilot has features that our especially nice, like straight and level, and this one has a 180 degree turn button - I am not just thinking of me the pilot - but of my wife for example as having something to press like that would give her confidence to fly with me - if ever just in case if you know what I mean. I wish there was envelope protection in the dynon system or this would be IT for me. I wonder if - since I already have a EDM830, if those sensors could also simply be double-lead into the dynon as well. I have been holding off on upgrading my panel too much for a couple of years, this last 2 or 3 years in hopes that this era of STC-experimental avionics would open up - and here we are! As far as taking out the vacuum system - I bet a lot of us are in this boat - I have also vacuum driven speed brakes. My understanding is therefore I need to keep the vacuum unless I replace the speed brakes with electric speed brakes, but that is considered a complete and new install at full price as if I never had speed brakes. I wonder how much that would cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 38 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: As far as taking out the vacuum system - I bet a lot of us are in this boat - I have also vacuum driven speed brakes. My understanding is therefore I need to keep the vacuum unless I replace the speed brakes with electric speed brakes, but that is considered a complete and new install at full price as if I never had speed brakes. I wonder how much that would cost? Erik, I am in this boat as well. Paul @gsxrpilot told me his solution/thoughts, and I agreed. To me, removing the standby vacuum system gives me the most weight reduction and leaving the engine driven pump only for the speed brakes allows me to remove the dependency on a pump in IMC. If I lose my vacuum pump and the only thing it affects is my speed brakes, I am okay with that. Yeah, I could spend >$5 AMU and replace the current ones with electric, but I cannot sell myself on the thought of doing so at this point. Perfect solution? Not quite, but meets my CB criteria. Just FWIW. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 How easy would it be to replace the vac driven speed brakes for electric? same foot print? any used ones available? ordinary clutch maintenance requires removal of the whole brake cartridge. It might be quite easy...? PP thinking out loud... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 26 minutes ago, carusoam said: How easy would it be to replace the vac driven speed brakes for electric? same foot print? any used ones available? ordinary clutch maintenance requires removal of the whole brake cartridge. It might be quite easy...? PP thinking out loud... Best regards, -a- Probably same footprint, but different STC. Would require removing "plumbing" for the existing vacuum system and then wiring for the new. Vacuum uses cable from servo under rear seat to each speed brake. Current price from Aircraft Spruce is $4995 for M20 Speedbrakes. Mounting the cartridges would hopefully use the same template and be the easy part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Oldguy said: Erik, I am in this boat as well. Paul @gsxrpilot told me his solution/thoughts, and I agreed. To me, removing the standby vacuum system gives me the most weight reduction and leaving the engine driven pump only for the speed brakes allows me to remove the dependency on a pump in IMC. If I lose my vacuum pump and the only thing it affects is my speed brakes, I am okay with that. Yeah, I could spend >$5 AMU and replace the current ones with electric, but I cannot sell myself on the thought of doing so at this point. Perfect solution? Not quite, but meets my CB criteria. Just FWIW. Hey - that's quite a good compromise idea. How much does my electric vacuum in the tail weigh? One can certainly fly the airplane safely without speed brakes if there were ever a vacuum failure - just slightly less conveniently. I think it would be a lot more than $5k to remove vacuum speed brakes and install electric. Probably same footprint, but different STC. Would require removing "plumbing" for the existing vacuum system and then wiring for the new. Vacuum uses cable from servo under rear seat to each speed brake. Current price from Aircraft Spruce is $4995 for M20 Speedbrakes. Mounting the cartridges would hopefully use the same template and be the easy part. My guess is that it is a high labor process - so we would be talking $5k for the spruce kit, but then something like 4 or 5k in labor and other small parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishboneash Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 I have vacuum speedbrakes too. I could get rid of the standby vacuum. In my situation, the only big benefit would be the A/P upgrade and an integrated glass panel. I have GDL-88 ADS-B out and an EDM-900 which are excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: Hey - that's quite a good compromise idea. How much does my electric vacuum in the tail weigh? ........ My guess is that it is a high labor process - so we would be talking $5k for the spruce kit, but then something like 4 or 5k in labor and other small parts. My POH says my stand-by vacuum system is 12.04 lbs. I'll take 2 gals. of 100 LL extra at the pump. I think your numbers are, unfortunately, probably close. I would assume much of the work would be in small places with no light and lots of opportunity to break other things, i.e. not anything I would attempt even with my IA watching. The new ones are 3 lbs. lighter than the older vacuum-driven ones, but I am good with just getting the 12 from the stand-by system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 On 7/24/2017 at 6:55 AM, PTK said: That would be the classic example of false economy. An action which apparently saves money initially but, over a longer period of time, results in wasting more money than being saved! This is exactly the issue I have with the new stuff Garmin announced. It's great for some panels that may need an autopilot for example. Not so great for others because they force you to buy more than you may need. I have no reason to remove my autopilot at the present time. It works perfectly and I'm not inclined to take it out. If I need to revisit this decision in the future can I do so with the HDX? Can I, presently, choose to install only the pfd/mfd and remove my KI256 and vaccuum? Then add components in the future if the need arises? Does the HDX provide attitude reference to other autopilots and does it have this modular flexibility? That was my question. Does anyone have any news on the KI300? Looks like a completely different product than it was 2 years ago Two years ago (this one looks a lot like the 2600 model from RC Allen): Today here's what's on their website. I am thinking it was developed by a third party (see Sandia Quattro picture below). It looks nice though. ch Price back then was $5289 with Roll/Pitch and A/P interface. I wonder what the price is now? It looks a lot like the Sandia Quattro 340. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 The graphics are so pixel by pixel identical now we know who rebuilt it for them....Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Graphics for AIs are pretty standardized, they all look alike. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, smccray said: Pricing is probably $16K of equipment, plus the STC plus installation. I had a little notice that something was coming, so I've been working on a replacement Dynon panel. See the Dynon Pricing Worksheet here: http://pricing.dynonavionics.com/ There's a For a basic single panel system the Dynon pricing probably looks something like this: Selected Items Here is a breakdown of your currently select kit. Part ID Name Qty Cost $13,110.00 SV-HDX1100 SV-HDX1100 10" SkyView HDX Display Bundle 1 $4,580.00 SV-ADAHRS-200 ADAHRS - Primary Module 1 $1,200.00 SV-GPS-2020 GPS-2020 Compliant Receiver / Antenna 1 $590.00 SV-GPS-250 GPS 5Hz Receiver / Antenna 1 $200.00 SV-ARINC-429 ARINC-429 Interface Module 1 $475.00 SV-BAT-320 SV-BAT-320 Backup Battery 1 $180.00 SV-EMS-220 1st SV-EMS-220 Engine Monitoring Module 1 $600.00 EMSKIT-L4F EMSKIT-L4F - Lyc./Cont./Superior, 4-Cyl, Fuel Injected 1 $680.00 SV-NET-SERVO SV-NET-SERVO - Network Autopilot Servo Cable Kit 2 $110.00 SV32 SV32 Autopilot Servo 1 $750.00 SV32 SV32 Autopilot Servo 1 $750.00 SV-XPNDR-261 SV-XPNDR-261 Class 1 Mode S Transponder 1 $2,200.00 SV-ADSB-472 SV-ADSB-472 Dual Band Traffic and Weather Receiver 1 $795.00 Add in the $2600 D10a and you're in the $16K ballpark. So I presume one would not need to buy everything if one already has a decent steam guage panel. Given I already have an electric gyro attitude for backup (and so also keeping the other necessary backup such as the turn coordinator, the ASI, VSI), and a modern ADSB transponder, and AOA, and a modern digital engine monitor, then can I pick and choose and not buy those components? I am mostly just interested in the EFIS and the AP. If so then install would be less expensive, and less components necessary. So from the above, don't buy the SV-EMS-220, SV-XPNDR-261, or SV-ADSB-472, or D10a. So total in parts would be $9515 - which is pretty remarkable for a full SVT EFIS and AP. (plus install). They are not mentioning but I bet there will be an STC price - maybe something like $1k for the paper? Edited July 24, 2017 by aviatoreb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 30 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: They are not mentioning but I bet there will be an STC price - maybe something like $1k for the paper? Erik, I think they said there was a $2K STC cost. Still cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 For the small AI displays... Go with the Sandia one... 1) positive attitude matching positive climb rate/Vs (350 fpm)... (realistic) 2) the BK graphic is showing a higher Vs (500fpm), at level attitude.... (doesn't look real) If I fly with a level attitude, and get a 500fpm climb, I will exceed the supposed 130kias..? I think the marketing department and advertising graphics need to work a little closer together. Bring a Mooney pilot along for a good reality check. The KSN770 brochure came out advertising a WASS gps. You don't need to be a marketing genius to get this stuff right. Now if they could include an AOA with that placed in front of my financial administrator... I could get over the little marketing hump.... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Graphics for AIs are pretty standardized, they all look alike. I'm an expert in developing UI professionally. Those aren't merely following the same standards. It's the same display, with some color changes.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Oldguy said: Erik, I think they said there was a $2K STC cost. Still cheap. I guess $2k is "something like" $1k. Where did they say that old guy? BTW how old are you to be calling yourself old guy? So a small peeve - when they announced they built their experimental C172 for $16k "out the door", they meant it cost THEM $16k for the parts, not including labor or the STC which they did not charge themselves. I think with STC and install roughstimate, add $10K to the parts cost off the experimental list price for STC+labor. I say small peeve because its reasonable and expected, so they just should have said it that way. Edited July 24, 2017 by aviatoreb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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